St. Ninians, church or place (Stirling)


Nancy W.
 

Sorry for the additional posting - I sent this Saturday but I haven't seen it or had any responses.

One of my Lowrie ancestors married Grace Monteath on 30 August 1829 at St. Ninian, Stirling, Scotland.
Is St. Ninian a church or a place?

Nancy Lowrie Wright


Anne Farrar
 

From Wikipedia:
St. Ninians is a long-standing settlement which is now a district of the city of Stirling in central Scotland. It is located approximately one mile south of the city centre. It was originally known as Eccles (i.e. 'church'), and may have been a Christian site from an unusually early date (possibly 5th or 6th century). Later called 'St. Ringan's' (a variant of St Ninian's).[1] This church was the administrative centre for churches across the strath of the River Forth.
 
When you google St. Ninian’s, Stirling, Scotland there are churches by that name as well in that location.
 
So it is a church and also a place.
 
Hope this helps
 


 

https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/St._Ninians,_Stirlingshire,_Scotland_Genealogy gives some interesting information, and https://www.minube.net/place/st-ninian-church-a370661 is a neat review.  My children attended carol service in the church, and I have been looking at records for the area for some time.

regards Seymour


 

On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 12:01 PM Nancy W. <wright4766@...> wrote:
Sorry for the additional posting - I sent this Saturday but I haven't seen it or had any responses.

One of my Lowrie ancestors married Grace Monteath on 30 August 1829 at St. Ninian, Stirling, Scotland.
Is St. Ninian a church or a place?

Nancy Lowrie Wright
 
--
http://about.me/valoriez - pronouns: she/her


Anne Burgess
 

Both.

From the point of view of family history, St Ninians is a //parish// in the county of Stirling. It happens to be next door to the parish of Stirling, and is now effectively a suburb of the city.

The really important points to understand are (a) that, until the 19th century at least, the parish was the basic unit, not only of the church but also of civil record-keeping and (b) that most events recorded in a parish register did not necessarily take place in the kirk building. Unless you find a record that says specifically that a wedding or baptism ceremony was performed in the kirk itself, or that the witnesses to a baptism were the congregation, you cannot safely assume that it was.

Most wedding ceremonies, for example, were held in the bride's parents home or, if she had no parents living or was married a long way from home, in the manse (the minister's residence) or in her employer's home. Baptisms too were often performed in the parents' home. Kirk ceremonies became common only during the 20th century, though I myself was baptised in my parents' living room, and I have been a bridesmaid at a wedding in the bride's parents' living room.

So you must not assume that James Lowrie and Grace Monteath were married in a kirk building. In 1829, in fact, the overwhelming likelihood is that they were not.

For background about the parish of St Ninians, see https://stataccscot.edina.ac.uk/static/statacc/dist/parish/Stirling/St%20Ninians
For more information about Scottish marriage customs see https://www.gla.ac.uk/schools/socialpolitical/research/economicsocialhistory/historymedicine/scottishwayofbirthanddeath/marriage/

HTH

Anne


Nancy W.
 

Anne, Thank you.  It helps me understand the way things were done in early eighteenth and nineteenth centuries in Scotland.  They were probably not very different from the way things were done in the US at the same time. You just reminded me again that the times have changed and are changing faster now.

On Tuesday, January 5, 2021, 5:20:33 AM CST, Anne Burgess via groups.io <anne.genlists@...> wrote:


Both.

From the point of view of family history, St Ninians is a //parish// in the county of Stirling. It happens to be next door to the parish of Stirling, and is now effectively a suburb of the city.

The really important points to understand are (a) that, until the 19th century at least, the parish was the basic unit, not only of the church but also of civil record-keeping and (b) that most events recorded in a parish register did not necessarily take place in the kirk building. Unless you find a record that says specifically that a wedding or baptism ceremony was performed in the kirk itself, or that the witnesses to a baptism were the congregation, you cannot safely assume that it was.

Most wedding ceremonies, for example, were held in the bride's parents home or, if she had no parents living or was married a long way from home, in the manse (the minister's residence) or in her employer's home. Baptisms too were often performed in the parents' home. Kirk ceremonies became common only during the 20th century, though I myself was baptised in my parents' living room, and I have been a bridesmaid at a wedding in the bride's parents' living room.

So you must not assume that James Lowrie and Grace Monteath were married in a kirk building. In 1829, in fact, the overwhelming likelihood is that they were not.

For background about the parish of St Ninians, see https://stataccscot.edina.ac.uk/static/statacc/dist/parish/Stirling/St%20Ninians
For more information about Scottish marriage customs see https://www.gla.ac.uk/schools/socialpolitical/research/economicsocialhistory/historymedicine/scottishwayofbirthanddeath/marriage/

HTH

Anne





Nancy W.
 

Thanks for all the websites.  I am trying to write up my family history now and these will certainly be helpful to "get it right" regarding the area, history and customs of the times.

Nancy

On Tuesday, January 5, 2021, 8:24:00 AM CST, Nancy W. <wright4766@...> wrote:


Anne, Thank you.  It helps me understand the way things were done in early eighteenth and nineteenth centuries in Scotland.  They were probably not very different from the way things were done in the US at the same time. You just reminded me again that the times have changed and are changing faster now.

On Tuesday, January 5, 2021, 5:20:33 AM CST, Anne Burgess via groups.io <anne.genlists@...> wrote:


Both.

From the point of view of family history, St Ninians is a //parish// in the county of Stirling. It happens to be next door to the parish of Stirling, and is now effectively a suburb of the city.

The really important points to understand are (a) that, until the 19th century at least, the parish was the basic unit, not only of the church but also of civil record-keeping and (b) that most events recorded in a parish register did not necessarily take place in the kirk building. Unless you find a record that says specifically that a wedding or baptism ceremony was performed in the kirk itself, or that the witnesses to a baptism were the congregation, you cannot safely assume that it was.

Most wedding ceremonies, for example, were held in the bride's parents home or, if she had no parents living or was married a long way from home, in the manse (the minister's residence) or in her employer's home. Baptisms too were often performed in the parents' home. Kirk ceremonies became common only during the 20th century, though I myself was baptised in my parents' living room, and I have been a bridesmaid at a wedding in the bride's parents' living room.

So you must not assume that James Lowrie and Grace Monteath were married in a kirk building. In 1829, in fact, the overwhelming likelihood is that they were not.

For background about the parish of St Ninians, see https://stataccscot.edina.ac.uk/static/statacc/dist/parish/Stirling/St%20Ninians
For more information about Scottish marriage customs see https://www.gla.ac.uk/schools/socialpolitical/research/economicsocialhistory/historymedicine/scottishwayofbirthanddeath/marriage/

HTH

Anne





Jocelyn Gould
 

Thanks for your explanation Anne.  That explains why my grandmother and her sister held their double wedding ceremony in the home of their mother and then moved on to the Brisbane Caledonian Society for the reception on 26 April 1910.

Happy New Year all

Jocelyn



Anne Burgess
 

Interesting indeed.

As I have said before in another thread, the term 'non-conformist' in the FS wiki is incorrect, because it is meaningless in relation to churches in Scotland. The term dates from the 17th century, *before* the union of Scotland and England, It originally refers to people or denominations in **England** who did not conform to the Church of **England** and the legislation leading to that never applied in Scotland.

There was no shortage of church denominations in Scotland that broke away from the Church of Scotland at various times, but the correct term for those is 'dissenting'.

Anne


Anne Burgess
 

Even more interesting.

Here are some more images of the old kirkyard of St Ninians https://www.geograph.org.uk/search.php?i=126674503

The review https://www.minube.net/place/st-ninian-church-a370661 contains a link to an entirely different congregation, not belonging to the Church of Scotland, based in a different building in Stirling.

This https://www.stniniansold.org.uk/ is the link to the Church of Scotland congregation that is based in the kirk next to the old kirkyard.

Anne


 

The FamilySearch Wiki is a wiki, and should be corrected and improved by those who can correct and improve it. 

Please!

On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 12:43 AM Anne Burgess via groups.io <anne.genlists=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:
Interesting indeed.

As I have said before in another thread, the term 'non-conformist' in the FS wiki is incorrect, because it is meaningless in relation to churches in Scotland. The term dates from the 17th century, *before* the union of Scotland and England, It originally refers to people or denominations in **England** who did not conform to the Church of **England** and the legislation leading to that never applied in Scotland.

There was no shortage of church denominations in Scotland that broke away from the Church of Scotland at various times, but the correct term for those is 'dissenting'.

Anne







--
http://about.me/valoriez - pronouns: she/her