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Searching for John McLeod

Claude Hanson <claudehanson@...>
 

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Hi Claude,

On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 1:58 PM Claude Hanson <claudehanson@...> wrote:
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I can't seem to reply to your message because it is an image rather than text! I usually snip the Groups.io message footer in replies, but leave it so that you see that there are links above allowing you to respond online as well as just clicking reply in your email client or webmail. 

Wise to not add people or data to your tree until verified. 

My advice about Scotland's People: search the sites you have access to, such as https://FamilySearch.org first. Often you can get dates and places at least which will make your searches of https://scotlandspeople.gov.uk/ more efficient.

Step one for me is always creating a detailed timeline for the Person of Interest, including citations. I find FamilySearch invaluable if only for the excellent citations that are usually ready-to-use with no editing needed. Hope this helps,

Valorie

_,_
--
http://about.me/valoriez - pronouns: she/her


Claude Hanson
 

Thanks, Valorie


On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 7:48 PM Valorie Zimmerman <valorie.zimmerman@...> wrote:
Hi Claude,

On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 1:58 PM Claude Hanson <claudehanson@...> wrote:
image.png

Anne Burgess
 
Edited

It is possible that the John McLeod born in Forgue is the father of Alexander McLeod.

However he shows up as a coachman in every census, and Alexander's father said he was a blacksmith.

I think you still need to follow up the one who was in Ladysbridge Hospital in 1881 and find out whether he was a blacksmith. If he was, then he is more likely to be your John McLeod than the one born in Forgue.

By all means use FamilySearch for pointers. But do not trust anything you find online unless it is an image of an original records. Even then, be wary.

Claude Hanson
 

Anne:  Thanks for continuing to try to help me.  I did learn how to use the Scotland's People cite, paid a fee and purchased a couple censuses.  I tried for several hours to get the marriage of Rebeccia Ross and David Winchester you mentioned on 13, June 1862 in Forres.  I tried and tried and tried... and nothing.  Finally went to a 2871 census for David Winchester and found he was married to someone else and had a family.  I also spent a quite a bit of effort in the Ladybridge Hospital, but could never find a place where I could ask a question.  Honestly, my brain seems to have stopped functioning and my ignorance is disgusting!!!  Let me know if you can find that marriage....and also let me know how I should get in contact with Ladybridge hospital.  Thanks!  Claude







1

On Sat, Jul 4, 2020 at 2:10 AM Anne Burgess via groups.io <anne.genlists=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:
[Edited Message Follows]

It is possible that the John McLeod born in Forgue is the father of Alexander McLeod.

However he shows up as a coachman in every census, and Alexander's father said he was a blacksmith.

I think you still need to follow up the one who was in Ladysbridge Hospital in 1881 and find out whether he was a blacksmith. If he was, then he is more likely to be your John McLeod than the one born in Forgue.

By all means use FamilySearch for pointers. But do not trust anything you find online unless it is an image of an original records. Even then, be wary.



 

On Sat, Jul 4, 2020 at 1:10 AM Anne Burgess via groups.io <anne.genlists=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:
[Edited Message Follows]

It is possible that the John McLeod born in Forgue is the father of Alexander McLeod.

However he shows up as a coachman in every census, and Alexander's father said he was a blacksmith.

I think you still need to follow up the one who was in Ladysbridge Hospital in 1881 and find out whether he was a blacksmith. If he was, then he is more likely to be your John McLeod than the one born in Forgue.

By all means use FamilySearch for pointers. But do not trust anything you find online unless it is an image of an original records. Even then, be wary.

I do use the FamilySearch Family Tree for a couple of reasons -- first, it is the most widely-used free site, and many people trust it, therefor I try to make the sourcing and information for my family members the best possible.

Second, if you use the tree, their hints are now good enough and other tools powerful enough to easily add links between sources and family members when appropriate. As Anne says, just because a person is named in some document /record and it's the same name as your person of interest -- does not mean that the two are linked! 

It's alway necessary to analyze the person of interest's life, *and* what is in the record, to see if they are connected. Fortunately, if you mistakenly (or someone else mistakenly) attached records to the wrong person, they can be *un*-attached. And if there are multiple profiles for the same person, they can (with care) be merged. Thank you for doing that work. It makes the tree better for everyone.

That said, the documents and other records in FamilySearch do not need to be attached to anyone in a tree on FamilySearch. They can be downloaded to your own machine and used in your own private tree, and IMO should be! Images and information can also be uploaded to WikiTree, Ancestry.com, MyHeritage, GeneaNet, Geni, etc and linked up to trees there. 

Don't forget the 80% of record images that are not indexed! They are trying to make it easier to find what you need, but there will need to be some work done on your part to find those wills, deeds, arrest records, probate files, etc. We no longer need to go to Family History Centers or libraries and crank microfilm. We can do it in our bunny slippers right in our own homes. 

Valorie

Anne Burgess
 

I gave you the web site address for Grampian Health Board Archives. You will not find details of patients in Ladysbridge Hospital (or any other hospital) online - you need to e-mail them and ask what they can tell you about John McLeod..

No idea why you can't find that marriage. If you just search the statutory marriages on SP for Winchester and 1862 it will come up. However I bought a copy of it as you are having problems and if confirms that Rebecca Ross (indexed as Rebeccia and I can see why) was the daughter of John Ross, farmer, and Christina Ross, maiden surname Munro, both deceased. David's parents were given as Alexander Winchester and Leslie McPherson, but his parents were actually *James* Winchester and Leslie McPherson, and he was born in Edinkillie (the next parish south-west of Forres) on 8 December 1839.

Rebecca Winchester died in Forres in 1864, aged 38. For some reason her death is not indexed under her maiden name as it should be, which is why I couldn't find it before. When you look at the original it may become clear. David then married Margaret Brander Grant in 1865. The 12-year-old David in the 1871 census is his illegitimate son by Jessie Smith. This child was born in Kinloss (the next parish to the north-west of Forres) on 29 December 1858.

Anne

Anne Burgess
 

I use the IGI on FamilySearch a lot, but usually only the 'Community indexed' section - I do not trust the 'Community contributed' section at all.

They also had a nasty habit of assuming that a man was aged 25 when he married, and a woman was 21, and 'calculating' a date of birth from this. They also assumed that someone was 'of' the place where they got married, oblivious to the fact that in Scotland, someone who is 'of xxx' is the landowner of xxx, not just someone who happens to have lived there.

I think the IGI is a wonderful tool, for all its many drawbacks (not 100% coverage of available records, curious spellings, assumptions, out of date) and sometimes one of the trees there contains a useful hint or two to be followed up. But FamilySearch mostly has just indexes and transcriptions, not original documents, and it is always essential to check the originals. Even then, be careful - witness the incorrect name of David Winchester's father on his first marriage certificate.

I repeat, with emphasis: never, ever trust anything you find online unless it's an image of an original documents, and even then be wary.

Do not, for instance, take as gospel anything I have said. Go and get the original documents and check for yourself.

Allan MacBain
 

I can only reiterate, and _emphasise_ what Anne has said... be a Berean - as Paul of Tarsus enjoined all Christians to be - "These (Berea) were more noble than those in Thessalonica in that they received the word with all readiness of mind and searched the scriptures daily whether those things were so."
Take your sources... from *wherever* they may be... then check, and _double-check_ them for accuracy. :-)

Allan MacBain MBCS
Associate Genealogist (UK & Europe), Clan MacBean Association.

On Sun, 5 Jul 2020 at 09:34, Anne Burgess via groups.io <anne.genlists=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:
I use the IGI on FamilySearch a lot, but usually only the 'Community indexed' section - I do not trust the 'Community contributed' section at all.

They also had a nasty habit of assuming that a man was aged 25 when he married, and a woman was 21, and 'calculating' a date of birth from this. They also assumed that someone was 'of' the place where they got married, oblivious to the fact that in Scotland, someone who is 'of xxx' is the landowner of xxx, not just someone who happens to have lived there.

I think the IGI is a wonderful tool, for all its many drawbacks (not 100% coverage of available records, curious spellings, assumptions, out of date) and sometimes one of the trees there contains a useful hint or two to be followed up. But FamilySearch mostly has just indexes and transcriptions, not original documents, and it is always essential to check the originals. Even then, be careful - witness the incorrect name of David Winchester's father on his first marriage certificate.

I repeat, with emphasis: never, ever trust anything you find online unless it's an image of an original documents, and even then be wary.

Do not, for instance, take as gospel anything I have said. Go and get the original documents and check for yourself.



Claude Hanson
 

Thanks for all the help.  I am finally learning how to use Scotland's People and have used up my first purchase of point


On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 5:39 AM Allan MacBain <testerscot@...> wrote:
I can only reiterate, and _emphasise_ what Anne has said... be a Berean - as Paul of Tarsus enjoined all Christians to be - "These (Berea) were more noble than those in Thessalonica in that they received the word with all readiness of mind and searched the scriptures daily whether those things were so."
Take your sources... from *wherever* they may be... then check, and _double-check_ them for accuracy. :-)

Allan MacBain MBCS
Associate Genealogist (UK & Europe), Clan MacBean Association.

On Sun, 5 Jul 2020 at 09:34, Anne Burgess via groups.io <anne.genlists=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:
I use the IGI on FamilySearch a lot, but usually only the 'Community indexed' section - I do not trust the 'Community contributed' section at all.

They also had a nasty habit of assuming that a man was aged 25 when he married, and a woman was 21, and 'calculating' a date of birth from this. They also assumed that someone was 'of' the place where they got married, oblivious to the fact that in Scotland, someone who is 'of xxx' is the landowner of xxx, not just someone who happens to have lived there.

I think the IGI is a wonderful tool, for all its many drawbacks (not 100% coverage of available records, curious spellings, assumptions, out of date) and sometimes one of the trees there contains a useful hint or two to be followed up. But FamilySearch mostly has just indexes and transcriptions, not original documents, and it is always essential to check the originals. Even then, be careful - witness the incorrect name of David Winchester's father on his first marriage certificate.

I repeat, with emphasis: never, ever trust anything you find online unless it's an image of an original documents, and even then be wary.

Do not, for instance, take as gospel anything I have said. Go and get the original documents and check for yourself.



Claude Hanson
 

Well, I lgu


On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 9:25 AM Claude Hanson <claudehanson@...> wrote:
Thanks for all the help.  I am finally learning how to use Scotland's People and have used up my first purchase of point

On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 5:39 AM Allan MacBain <testerscot@...> wrote:
I can only reiterate, and _emphasise_ what Anne has said... be a Berean - as Paul of Tarsus enjoined all Christians to be - "These (Berea) were more noble than those in Thessalonica in that they received the word with all readiness of mind and searched the scriptures daily whether those things were so."
Take your sources... from *wherever* they may be... then check, and _double-check_ them for accuracy. :-)

Allan MacBain MBCS
Associate Genealogist (UK & Europe), Clan MacBean Association.

On Sun, 5 Jul 2020 at 09:34, Anne Burgess via groups.io <anne.genlists=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:
I use the IGI on FamilySearch a lot, but usually only the 'Community indexed' section - I do not trust the 'Community contributed' section at all.

They also had a nasty habit of assuming that a man was aged 25 when he married, and a woman was 21, and 'calculating' a date of birth from this. They also assumed that someone was 'of' the place where they got married, oblivious to the fact that in Scotland, someone who is 'of xxx' is the landowner of xxx, not just someone who happens to have lived there.

I think the IGI is a wonderful tool, for all its many drawbacks (not 100% coverage of available records, curious spellings, assumptions, out of date) and sometimes one of the trees there contains a useful hint or two to be followed up. But FamilySearch mostly has just indexes and transcriptions, not original documents, and it is always essential to check the originals. Even then, be careful - witness the incorrect name of David Winchester's father on his first marriage certificate.

I repeat, with emphasis: never, ever trust anything you find online unless it's an image of an original documents, and even then be wary.

Do not, for instance, take as gospel anything I have said. Go and get the original documents and check for yourself.



Claude Hanson
 

This computer is so darned sensitive!  I have just sent two messages as I was beginning to write them.  I have learned to use Scotland's People well enough to use up my first purchase of points.  I have been doing genealogy for almost 41 years and I learned years ago to only record on my trees the hard data, not information from others, although in many cases it can be validated by finding the original recording (I call that "hard" data) so the information does serve as clues.
     On the birth record of John McLeod, in 1853, it says his mother Rebecca, was from Snab and his father was from Dalvey.  And what does it mean when there is a blank for where he was baptised.  I have looked a bit to find the father of John McLeod  and the only Donald McLeod I can find was 49 years old in 1851.  (and, I was so exhausted last night (4th of July), I don't even remember where  it saw that).
      When I'm using Scotland's People, I keep thinking it's home must be the place we visited 24 years ago.  My wife's cousin told us to be sure to get there early because there would be a long que!  None of us had ever heard of that phrase before and had no idea what she meant.  When we got there a long line was forming.... so we discovered that que in Scotland is the same as "waiting line" in Idaho!
     It will be nice when I can again spend every Tuesday morning at our LDS family history center.  It's been closed since late February because of the wicked virus!!!!
     Anne, I finally found the marriage for Rebecca Ross and the  birth record for John McLeod.  I was looking at in  a cite that limited the church records for marriages and I was looking in an area that only had births since 1855.  I'm learning.
Claude 

Iain MacIntosh
 

Progress is a great thing.  You can book a terminal online down to th room and seat you prefer. You pay in advanceAnd go straight to your booked place. No queues ... unless you arrive early!


Iain 







Iain 



On 5 Jul 2020, at 17:12, Claude Hanson <claudehanson@...> wrote:


This computer is so darned sensitive!  I have just sent two messages as I was beginning to write them.  I have learned to use Scotland's People well enough to use up my first purchase of points.  I have been doing genealogy for almost 41 years and I learned years ago to only record on my trees the hard data, not information from others, although in many cases it can be validated by finding the original recording (I call that "hard" data) so the information does serve as clues.
     On the birth record of John McLeod, in 1853, it says his mother Rebecca, was from Snab and his father was from Dalvey.  And what does it mean when there is a blank for where he was baptised.  I have looked a bit to find the father of John McLeod  and the only Donald McLeod I can find was 49 years old in 1851.  (and, I was so exhausted last night (4th of July), I don't even remember where  it saw that).
      When I'm using Scotland's People, I keep thinking it's home must be the place we visited 24 years ago.  My wife's cousin told us to be sure to get there early because there would be a long que!  None of us had ever heard of that phrase before and had no idea what she meant.  When we got there a long line was forming.... so we discovered that que in Scotland is the same as "waiting line" in Idaho!
     It will be nice when I can again spend every Tuesday morning at our LDS family history center.  It's been closed since late February because of the wicked virus!!!!
     Anne, I finally found the marriage for Rebecca Ross and the  birth record for John McLeod.  I was looking at in  a cite that limited the church records for marriages and I was looking in an area that only had births since 1855.  I'm learning.
Claude 

Goldie & Lido Doratti
 

How good that is!!  From Canada I wish I could book a person to look for what I want and need.  The cost of hiring a genealogist is over the moon for a few sheets of paper.  Scotland’s People should hire someone to find what overseas folks need and want.  I was there many years ago and all I can say about the folks at Princess Street is that they were so VERY kind and considerate....AND most helpful to someone who hadn’t been before and likely wouldn’t be again.  God Bless them all...GOOD folks all of them.  Goldie
 

From: Iain MacIntosh
Sent: Sunday, July 5, 2020 12:01 PM
To: Scots@scotland-genealogy.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ScotGen] Searching for John McLeod
 
Progress is a great thing.  You can book a terminal online down to th room and seat you prefer. You pay in advanceAnd go straight to your booked place. No queues ... unless you arrive early!

 
Iain
 
 
 



 
Iain
 
 
 
On 5 Jul 2020, at 17:12, Claude Hanson <claudehanson@...> wrote:


This computer is so darned sensitive!  I have just sent two messages as I was beginning to write them.  I have learned to use Scotland's People well enough to use up my first purchase of points.  I have been doing genealogy for almost 41 years and I learned years ago to only record on my trees the hard data, not information from others, although in many cases it can be validated by finding the original recording (I call that "hard" data) so the information does serve as clues.
     On the birth record of John McLeod, in 1853, it says his mother Rebecca, was from Snab and his father was from Dalvey.  And what does it mean when there is a blank for where he was baptised.  I have looked a bit to find the father of John McLeod  and the only Donald McLeod I can find was 49 years old in 1851.  (and, I was so exhausted last night (4th of July), I don't even remember where  it saw that).
      When I'm using Scotland's People, I keep thinking it's home must be the place we visited 24 years ago.  My wife's cousin told us to be sure to get there early because there would be a long que!  None of us had ever heard of that phrase before and had no idea what she meant.  When we got there a long line was forming.... so we discovered that que in Scotland is the same as "waiting line" in Idaho!
     It will be nice when I can again spend every Tuesday morning at our LDS family history center.  It's been closed since late February because of the wicked virus!!!!
     Anne, I finally found the marriage for Rebecca Ross and the  birth record for John McLeod.  I was looking at in  a cite that limited the church records for marriages and I was looking in an area that only had births since 1855.  I'm learning.
Claude

Claude Hanson
 

Anne, I also made a copy of Rebecca's death record and it states her mother's name was Margaret Ross...I think that is wrong information given by her almost new husband.  When she was giving the information for her marriage she said her mother was Christian Munro.  What do you think?  I found a christening record from Edenkillie, Morayshire for 20 Feb 1877 and she was 65 on the 1841 census... so that is probably her.  I also found a birth record for a John Ross, christened 1 Aug 1776 in Dyke to a father Alexander Ross and another John Ross, christened 2 Oct 1779.  Neither gives a mother's name.  I'd like to nail down Rebecca's info before I get to John McLeod's father Donald's family.  My trees are all on Roots Magic and I haven't entered a date or name in more than three months....  I've tried to find the birthplace for the Ross siblings - Don, Christian, and Rebecca ... and, not surprisingly, to no avail.  I'd like to blame it on Trump or the virus; but even I am smarter than that!  Claude


On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 5:37 PM Goldie & Lido Doratti <lidogold2@...> wrote:
How good that is!!  From Canada I wish I could book a person to look for what I want and need.  The cost of hiring a genealogist is over the moon for a few sheets of paper.  Scotland’s People should hire someone to find what overseas folks need and want.  I was there many years ago and all I can say about the folks at Princess Street is that they were so VERY kind and considerate....AND most helpful to someone who hadn’t been before and likely wouldn’t be again.  God Bless them all...GOOD folks all of them.  Goldie
 
From: Iain MacIntosh
Sent: Sunday, July 5, 2020 12:01 PM
To: Scots@scotland-genealogy.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ScotGen] Searching for John McLeod
 
Progress is a great thing.  You can book a terminal online down to th room and seat you prefer. You pay in advanceAnd go straight to your booked place. No queues ... unless you arrive early!

 
Iain
 
 
 



 
Iain
 
 
 
On 5 Jul 2020, at 17:12, Claude Hanson <claudehanson@...> wrote:


This computer is so darned sensitive!  I have just sent two messages as I was beginning to write them.  I have learned to use Scotland's People well enough to use up my first purchase of points.  I have been doing genealogy for almost 41 years and I learned years ago to only record on my trees the hard data, not information from others, although in many cases it can be validated by finding the original recording (I call that "hard" data) so the information does serve as clues.
     On the birth record of John McLeod, in 1853, it says his mother Rebecca, was from Snab and his father was from Dalvey.  And what does it mean when there is a blank for where he was baptised.  I have looked a bit to find the father of John McLeod  and the only Donald McLeod I can find was 49 years old in 1851.  (and, I was so exhausted last night (4th of July), I don't even remember where  it saw that).
      When I'm using Scotland's People, I keep thinking it's home must be the place we visited 24 years ago.  My wife's cousin told us to be sure to get there early because there would be a long que!  None of us had ever heard of that phrase before and had no idea what she meant.  When we got there a long line was forming.... so we discovered that que in Scotland is the same as "waiting line" in Idaho!
     It will be nice when I can again spend every Tuesday morning at our LDS family history center.  It's been closed since late February because of the wicked virus!!!!
     Anne, I finally found the marriage for Rebecca Ross and the  birth record for John McLeod.  I was looking at in  a cite that limited the church records for marriages and I was looking in an area that only had births since 1855.  I'm learning.
Claude

Josephine Conray
 

Hi Claude.

 

My Dad was called Claude nice name. I know a lot of people don’t like Ancestry because of mistakes.  I think you should not discard the information in Family trees on Ancestry there might be one thing in that information that might break down walls for your tree. It is up to the person to prove or disprove the information.

 

I am not sure it these records below are the same David & Rebeccia Winchester that you are looking for; because on Ann Burgess email she said that Rebeccia Winchester died in Forres in 1864, age 38 that would make her born about 1826 I think that is a bit too old.

 

 

I found this information for David Winchester,

 

This is the birth & baptism info for David.

Name:

David Winchester

Gender:

Male

Birth Date:

8 Dec 1839

Baptism Date:

3 Jan 1840

Baptism Place:

Edinkillie, Moray, Scotland

Father:

James Winchester

Mother:

Leslie Macpherson

FHL Film Number:

990797

 

This is the marriage to a Rebeccia Ross  cannot find any children. Working on the marriage date she should have been born about 1841

Name:

David Winchester

Gender:

Male

Marriage Date:

13 Jun 1862

Marriage Place:

Forres, Moray, Scotland

Spouse:

Rebeccia Ross

FHL Film Number:

6035516

 

This is the death of Rebeccia

Name:

Rebecca Winchester

Maiden Name:

Ross

Death Date:

2 May 1864

Death Place:

High Street Forres

Spouse:

David Winchester Carrier Forres

Original URL:

http://libindx.moray.gov.uk/pe...

 

 

This is the marriage to Margaret B Grant

Name:

David Winchester

Gender:

Male

Marriage Date:

8 Dec 1865

Marriage Place:

Forres, Moray, Scotland

Spouse:

Margaret Brander Grant

FHL Film Number:

6035516

 

The children that I found for the marriage of David Winchester & Margaret Grant are

 

Diavid dee Winchester born 1859 Kinloss, Englinshire and Died in the USA he married twice Jessie McLarn Louder b1863 Glassford Lanarkshire in Scotland they had 8 Eight children  then he married Emma C (unknown)  Winchester in the USA she was born24 Dec 1881 in Mississippi & died 1 March 1948 3 Three children so far.

In the 1871 Census that I found David is the son of David & Margaret.

 

Eliza Ann 8 Feb 1863 Forres Elginshire

James 3 June 1873 Forres, Morayshire.

Margaret Lesslie 1 June 1874 Forres

 

Hope this helps

Josephine

Qld Aust.

 

 

 

 

From: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io [mailto:Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io] On Behalf Of Claude Hanson
Sent: Monday, 6 July 2020 2:13 AM
To: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ScotGen] Searching for John McLeod

 

This computer is so darned sensitive!  I have just sent two messages as I was beginning to write them.  I have learned to use Scotland's People well enough to use up my first purchase of points.  I have been doing genealogy for almost 41 years and I learned years ago to only record on my trees the hard data, not information from others, although in many cases it can be validated by finding the original recording (I call that "hard" data) so the information does serve as clues.

     On the birth record of John McLeod, in 1853, it says his mother Rebecca, was from Snab and his father was from Dalvey.  And what does it mean when there is a blank for where he was baptised.  I have looked a bit to find the father of John McLeod  and the only Donald McLeod I can find was 49 years old in 1851.  (and, I was so exhausted last night (4th of July), I don't even remember where  it saw that).

      When I'm using Scotland's People, I keep thinking it's home must be the place we visited 24 years ago.  My wife's cousin told us to be sure to get there early because there would be a long que!  None of us had ever heard of that phrase before and had no idea what she meant.  When we got there a long line was forming.... so we discovered that que in Scotland is the same as "waiting line" in Idaho!

     It will be nice when I can again spend every Tuesday morning at our LDS family history center.  It's been closed since late February because of the wicked virus!!!!

     Anne, I finally found the marriage for Rebecca Ross and the  birth record for John McLeod.  I was looking at in  a cite that limited the church records for marriages and I was looking in an area that only had births since 1855.  I'm learning.

Claude 

Josephine Conray
 

 

Hi Claude

 

Just found this  you might be able to order the film in at the LDS center

 

 

 

Name:

John Mcleod

Gender:

Male

Birth Date:

2 Nov 1853

Birth Place:

Dyke, Moray, Scotland

Father:

Donald Mcleod

Mother:

Rebekah Ross

FHL Film Number:

990796

 

 

 

Cheers

Josephine

Qld Aust.

 

 

From: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io [mailto:Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io] On Behalf Of Claude Hanson
Sent: Monday, 6 July 2020 2:13 AM
To: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ScotGen] Searching for John McLeod

 

This computer is so darned sensitive!  I have just sent two messages as I was beginning to write them.  I have learned to use Scotland's People well enough to use up my first purchase of points.  I have been doing genealogy for almost 41 years and I learned years ago to only record on my trees the hard data, not information from others, although in many cases it can be validated by finding the original recording (I call that "hard" data) so the information does serve as clues.

     On the birth record of John McLeod, in 1853, it says his mother Rebecca, was from Snab and his father was from Dalvey.  And what does it mean when there is a blank for where he was baptised.  I have looked a bit to find the father of John McLeod  and the only Donald McLeod I can find was 49 years old in 1851.  (and, I was so exhausted last night (4th of July), I don't even remember where  it saw that).

      When I'm using Scotland's People, I keep thinking it's home must be the place we visited 24 years ago.  My wife's cousin told us to be sure to get there early because there would be a long que!  None of us had ever heard of that phrase before and had no idea what she meant.  When we got there a long line was forming.... so we discovered that que in Scotland is the same as "waiting line" in Idaho!

     It will be nice when I can again spend every Tuesday morning at our LDS family history center.  It's been closed since late February because of the wicked virus!!!!

     Anne, I finally found the marriage for Rebecca Ross and the  birth record for John McLeod.  I was looking at in  a cite that limited the church records for marriages and I was looking in an area that only had births since 1855.  I'm learning.

Claude 

Anne Burgess
 

I think that is wrong information by her widower. When there is a conflict between information on a marriage and information on the death certificate, I tend to believe the marriage because in that case the person is alive to provide the information, whereas with a death certificate the information is only as good as what the informant thinks he knows.

Be very careful not to make assumptions about Christian Munro and her husband. In the 1841 census adults' ages were rounded down to the nearest 5 years. The census was taken on 7 June 1841, so if Christian's stated age is accurate she would have been born between 8 June 1771 and 7 June 1776. Also, she said in the 1841 that she was not born in Moray. In 1851 Donald and Christian jr say they were born in Nigg, Ross and Cromarty and Rebecca was born in Nairn, and in 1861 both Christian jr and Rebecca say Nairn. There was quite a bit of migration from the northern counties, and a family starting out in Ross-shire, moving to Nairn and then moving again to Moray wouldn't be unusual.

Do we know what happened to Rebecca's siblings? She and her sister were both described in the 1861 census as 'retired farmer' (and so was the 7-year-old John!). Her brother could be the Donald Ross, aged 49, who died in Dyke in 1857. Christina Ross, mother's maiden surname Munro, died in Forres in 1861, aged 48. Their death certificates should settle that.

You also said, "On the birth record of John McLeod, in 1853, it says his mother Rebecca, was from Snab and his father was from Dalvey. And what does it mean when there is a blank for where he was baptised." It means that the clerk probably wrote it down after the event, and didn't have the exact date to hand, and then forgot to fill it in later.

There are several places called Dalvey, but the nearest one to Snab is this one https://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NJ0058 so it would be reasonable to suppose that John's father Donald McLeod lived at this Dalvey, in the same parish. This map shows both Snab of Moy and Dalvey House https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15&lat=57.61561&lon=-3.68723&layers=5&b=1 (you may need to zoom in a bit). But farm workers, especially young unmarried ones, did tend to move around quite a lot, so he may not have been there on the day of the 1851 census, let alone the 1861.

Claude Hanson
 

Anne:  I just retrieved those death records and sibling Donald does not match; however, sibling Christina is the correct one...her father is John Ross and mother is Christian Munro - informant was Rebecca.


On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 4:05 AM Anne Burgess via groups.io <anne.genlists=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:
I think that is wrong information by her widower. When there is a conflict between information on a marriage and information on the death certificate, I tend to believe the marriage because in that case the person is alive to provide the information, whereas with a death certificate the information is only as good as what the informant thinks he knows.

Be very careful not to make assumptions about Christian Munro and her husband. In the 1841 census adults' ages were rounded down to the nearest 5 years. The census was taken on 7 June 1841, so if Christian's stated age is accurate she would have been born between 8 June 1771 and 7 June 1776. Also, she said in the 1841 that she was not born in Moray. In 1851 Donald and Christian jr say they were born in Nigg, Ross and Cromarty and Rebecca was born in Nairn, and in 1861 both Christian jr and Rebecca say Nairn. There was quite a bit of migration from the northern counties, and a family starting out in Ross-shire, moving to Nairn and then moving again to Moray wouldn't be unusual.

Do we know what happened to Rebecca's siblings? She and her sister were both described in the 1861 census as 'retired farmer' (and so was the 7-year-old John!). Her brother could be the Donald Ross, aged 49, who died in Dyke in 1857.  Christina Ross, mother's maiden surname Munro, died in Forres in 1861, aged 48. Their death certificates should settle that.

You also said, "On the birth record of John McLeod, in 1853, it says his mother Rebecca, was from Snab and his father was from Dalvey.  And what does it mean when there is a blank for where he was baptised." It means that the clerk probably wrote it down after the event, and didn't have the exact date to hand, and then forgot to fill it in later.

There are several places called Dalvey, but the nearest one to Snab is this one https://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NJ0058 so it would be reasonable to suppose that John's father Donald McLeod lived at this Dalvey, in the same parish. This map shows both Snab of Moy and Dalvey House https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15&lat=57.61561&lon=-3.68723&layers=5&b=1 (you may need to zoom in a bit). But farm workers, especially young unmarried ones, did tend to move around quite a lot, so he may not have been there on the day of the 1851 census, let alone the 1861.




Wayne Shepheard
 

Ann,

Normally I would agree with you but in the case of my wife's grandfather and great-grandmother, the information about parentage on their marriage records (two each) was not correct. In fact, both told fibs all the way through their lives, on marriage records, censuses, military service records, etc. The only accurate information about great-gramma's parentage was on her death information which was given by a nephew, a son of one of her sisters. Both of her sisters, by the way, did offer the correct information about their parents on their own marriage records.

Grandpa, perhaps because he was illegitimate, rarely gave the correct information about his parentage. Information about his parents on his death record, unfortunately, was wrong as well. I think this was because the informant, my wife's mother, was never told the entire truth about her father's family. She took the erroneous information from her father's marriage record.

The lesson here is never completely trust any record, but look for many different sources in order to determine what might be the real truth about relationships.

Wayne Shepheard


On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 4:05 AM Anne Burgess via groups.io <anne.genlists=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:
I think that is wrong information by her widower. When there is a conflict between information on a marriage and information on the death certificate, I tend to believe the marriage because in that case the person is alive to provide the information, whereas with a death certificate the information is only as good as what the informant thinks he knows.