Topics

John Mackay Problem ..............


aberloursearch@...
 


Good morning everyone,

I am searching for Jouhn Mackay who was listed as a labouror on the 1851 and 1861 census for Forres in Moray.

On these census he states he was 72 years old and 82 years old and born in Redcastle, Ross and Cromarty.

I also have a copy of his death certificate from 1861 that was witnessed by his son stating he was 82 years old and his parents were Duncan Mackay (farmer) and Margaret Fraser both deceased.

I then searched on Scotlands people for a birth of John Mackay son of Duncan Mackay and Margaret Fraser there was only one listed and he was born in 1779 which would fit with his age on the census and age on his death certificate.

However this John Mackay was NOT born in Redcastle but in Uray.

There are no other children listed for Duncan Mackay and Margaret Fraser on Scotlands people that i can find.

I did however find a marriage in Uray for a Duncan Mackay and Margaret Fraser however this marriage was in 1750 29 years before John Mackay was born.

All the information i have is from Scotlands people.

Anyones thoughts on this would be gratefully appreciated.

Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: Sue Wood <suewood123@...>
To: Scots@scotland-genealogy.groups.io
Sent: Mon, Jul 13, 2020 8:27 am
Subject: Re: [ScotGen] McQueen / McLean Fernley near Carbost Skye

My problem is that the marriages I have found for some of this family don't give parents names.
If they stayed in Scotland I would be searching death records for the males for days and not hours.  The only accurate way that I can think of is to hope that some one, anyplace in the world, has Kenneth Mcqueen / MacQueen and Mary Mclean /MacLean on a death certificate. Would love to have other advice.


Josephine Conray
 

Hello Ray.

 

There are 28 family trees on Ancestry for a John MacKay info as follow. This is from Ancestry so you will have to verified

 

John MacKay born 6 Jan 1779 Milton of Redcastle, Ross & Cromarty and died 21 June 1861, Police Station, Forres, Moray.

Married to Elspet MacGregor born 1774 Avielochan, Duthil Moray and died 22 Nov 1861 Forres Moray

 

Children --:

Willian  Born 27 Jan 1811 Duthil, Married to Jane Stewart 8 children   

Margaret  Born 8 Oct 1813 Duthil, married to John Douglas 8 children

Isabel   born 18 Oct 1816 Duthil

 

 

Some of the trees Have John born Kincastle , Urray, Ross & Cromarty and Redcastle.  I think all these places are near each other, you can take you pick

 

Hope this helps

Josephine

Qld Aust.

 

 

 

From: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io [mailto:Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io] On Behalf Of aberloursearch via groups.io
Sent: Monday, 13 July 2020 11:52 AM
To: suewood123@...; Scots@scotland-genealogy.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ScotGen] John Mackay Problem ..............

 

 

Good morning everyone,

 

I am searching for Jouhn Mackay who was listed as a labouror on the 1851 and 1861 census for Forres in Moray.

 

On these census he states he was 72 years old and 82 years old and born in Redcastle, Ross and Cromarty.

 

I also have a copy of his death certificate from 1861 that was witnessed by his son stating he was 82 years old and his parents were Duncan Mackay (farmer) and Margaret Fraser both deceased.

 

I then searched on Scotlands people for a birth of John Mackay son of Duncan Mackay and Margaret Fraser there was only one listed and he was born in 1779 which would fit with his age on the census and age on his death certificate.

 

However this John Mackay was NOT born in Redcastle but in Uray.

 

There are no other children listed for Duncan Mackay and Margaret Fraser on Scotlands people that i can find.

 

I did however find a marriage in Uray for a Duncan Mackay and Margaret Fraser however this marriage was in 1750 29 years before John Mackay was born.

 

All the information i have is from Scotlands people.

 

Anyones thoughts on this would be gratefully appreciated.

 

Ray

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Sue Wood <suewood123@...>
To: Scots@scotland-genealogy.groups.io
Sent: Mon, Jul 13, 2020 8:27 am
Subject: Re: [ScotGen] McQueen / McLean Fernley near Carbost Skye

My problem is that the marriages I have found for some of this family don't give parents names.

If they stayed in Scotland I would be searching death records for the males for days and not hours.  The only accurate way that I can think of is to hope that some one, anyplace in the world, has Kenneth Mcqueen / MacQueen and Mary Mclean /MacLean on a death certificate. Would love to have other advice.

 


Anne Burgess
 

I would not dismiss the baptism in Urray which is the right year and parents.There are several Redcastles in Scotland. One of these is on the north shore of the Beauly Firth in the county of Ross and Cromarty. It is in the parish of Killearnan, and is a mile or so from the boundary of the parish of Killearnan with the parish of Urray. He could have been born in a cottage belonging to Redcastle estate which happens to be in the parish of Urray, or his parents may have been normally resident in the parish of Urray but he was born at his mother's parents' home in the parish of Killearnan, or the minister of Killearnan was away or ill and they had to take the baby to the next parish for baptism, or some other reason.

Have you looked at the original baptism record to see what it says?


Meg
 

Hi

Libindx has 2 entries for him, but not much more info in them - take from the death notice in the 3 different papers
http://libindx.moray.gov.uk/mainmenu.asp

It is possible that the son didn't know his grandparent full names and Fraser might not be his grandmother's maiden name. Have you looked at Naming Patterns for his choldren and any Middle Names? Also witnesses on baptism could be brothers or sisters of John and their deaths may show up different parents.

Other things to consider is John might *think* he was born in Redcastle because that is all he remembered, but actually born in Uray. Was the mother born in Uray and went home to her mother for his birth? Is it possible that Duncan Mackay and Margaret Fraser are John's Grandparent and not parents? 29 years would fit that. What children did they have that could be John's parent? Did they have a John, who then had this John?

Sorry not much help there, just more questions and possiblities.


jwmmackay@...
 

I resent your subject heading, Ray.  (Which is a joke - my name is John Mackay).

I was hoping to see some of my ancestors in your names and dates. I have come across Duncan Mackay and Margaret Fraser in my own research, but eliminated them as relations. My Mackays / McKays (the spelling varies) settled in Moray, but in the 1820’s and earlier were in Ross and Cromarty (Culbokie). I’ll keep watching your posts to see if I see some familiar names. Good luck to you.

John


jwmmackay@...
 

Hi Josephine,

I’m curious: Would it be possible for you tell me if there is an Ancestry family tree for either of the following?

William McKay, born July 4, 1821 in Knockbain, Ross Shire. Would later go by Mackay. Died 1903.

Married to Margaret Cobban, born around 1817 in New Spynie, Moray. Died 1908.

Children:

John McKay, born Apr 7, 1849 in Drainie, Morayshire, Moray County.

Margaret McKay, born 1852 Morayshire

Alexander McKay, born 1854 Morayshire

Elizabeth McKay, born Dec 24, 1856, Morayshire

William McKay, born May 16, 1860 Morayshire


or for the parents of William the father? I have him born in 1821 to Alexander McKay and Margaret Simpson, in Muckernich / Knockbain. All I ever found on Alexander and Margaret was a very brief marriage record (17 April 1806). No info on age, birth, death, parents, etc. They did have another child, Alexander, born 15 April, 1816.

Thanks!

John Mackay


aberloursearch@...
 


Good morning Anne,

Yes i have the original baptism record which states John Mackay was born on the 6th of January 1779 and baptised on the 9th of January 1779 in Urray
 also gives the names of the parents Duncan Mackay and Margaret Fraser his spouse no witnesses also states where he was born but i cant make it out properly as there seems to be some of the place name missing, all  i can make out is HILLO????

Regards

Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: Anne Burgess via groups.io <anne.genlists@...>
To: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io
Sent: Mon, Jul 13, 2020 3:35 pm
Subject: Re: [ScotGen] John Mackay Problem ..............

I would not dismiss the baptism in Urray which is the right year and parents.There are several Redcastles in Scotland. One of these is on the north shore of the Beauly Firth in the county of Ross and Cromarty. It is in the parish of Killearnan, and is a mile or so from the boundary of the parish of Killearnan with the parish of Urray. He could have been born in a cottage belonging to Redcastle estate which happens to be in the parish of Urray, or his parents may have been normally resident in the parish of Urray but he was born at his mother's parents' home in the parish of Killearnan, or the minister of Killearnan was away or ill and they had to take the baby to the next parish for baptism, or some other reason.

Have you looked at the original baptism record to see what it says?




Anne Burgess
 

Could it possibly be MILTO??? Could you e-mail me a copy of it?

BTW someone upthread said there is a tree on Anc****y that says he was born at Kincastle.

I've never heard of a Kincastle and there is no listing of a Kincastle on www.scotlandsplaces.gov.uk so I suspect another of Anc****y's many and legendary mistranscriptions. It's probably Redcastle.

Anne


Josephine Conray
 

Hi John

 

There are no family trees for Alexander McKay/ MacKay and Margaret Simpson, did see their marriage record in 1806 and I did see Alexander record for his Baptisms which was on the 15 April, 1816 at Knockbain FHL: Film no 990655 you might be able to order that film.

It seems strange that Alexander & Margaret  did not have any children in that fist ten years then Alex in 1816 & William in 1821 but there is no other information for them.

 

There is two Family tree for William McKay/ MacKay & Margaret Cobban, but there is not any new information then you already have on the email.

 

A couple of bits below for the children in Red

 

The only other information Margaret Cobban was born 24 Aug 1817 New Spynie  her parents John Connan b1770 and Elizabeth Cooper  b1781 – Died 17 Oct 1827 they were married 29 May 1804 Spynie, Moray. FHL Film no 990802

 

Sorry I could not help very much

Cheers

Josephine

Qld Aust.

 

 

From: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io [mailto:Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io] On Behalf Of jwmmackay@...
Sent: Tuesday, 14 July 2020 1:44 AM
To: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ScotGen] John Mackay Problem ..............

 

Hi Josephine,

I’m curious: Would it be possible for you tell me if there is an Ancestry family tree for either of the following?

William McKay, born July 4, 1821 in Knockbain, Ross Shire. Would later go by Mackay. Died 1903.

Married to Margaret Cobban, born around 1817 in New Spynie, Moray. Died 1908.

Children:

John McKay, born Apr 7, 1849 in Drainie, Morayshire, Moray County.===  Baptism 28 April 1849

Margaret McKay, born 1852 Morayshire

Alexander McKay, born 1854 Morayshire ====the 1881 Census states Alex was born Standrew’s  Shouboyd, Morashire

Elizabeth McKay, born Dec 24, 1856, Morayshire  Elizabeth Cooper born at Alves, Moray

William McKay, born May 16, 1860 Morayshire Also born at Alves, Moray  Occupation in 1861 was Police Constable.


or for the parents of William the father? I have him born in 1821 to Alexander McKay and Margaret Simpson, in Muckernich / Knockbain. All I ever found on Alexander and Margaret was a very brief marriage record (17 April 1806). No info on age, birth, death, parents, etc. They did have another child, Alexander, born 15 April, 1816.

Thanks!

John Mackay


aberloursearch@...
 

Hello Anne,

Please find attached a copy ot the Birth and baptism record for John Mackay born 6th January 1779 son of Duncan Mackay and Margaret Fraser.
Regards Ray


-----Original Message-----
From: Anne Burgess via groups.io <anne.genlists@...>
To: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Jul 14, 2020 4:48 pm
Subject: Re: [ScotGen] John Mackay Problem ..............

Could it possibly be MILTO??? Could you e-mail me a copy of it?

BTW someone upthread said there is a tree on Anc****y that says he was born at Kincastle.

I've never heard of a Kincastle and there is no listing of a Kincastle on www.scotlandsplaces.gov.uk so I suspect another of Anc****y's many and legendary mistranscriptions. It's probably Redcastle.

Anne



Anne Burgess
 

Hi Ray

Looks like Hiltown to me. Definitely not an M at the beginning of it.

I see a Hilton between Redcastle and Muir of Ord https://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NH5449 and https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15&lat=57.51272&lon=-4.42572&layers=5&b=1 which is in the parish of Urray. This would fit with the baptism record but not obviously with John saying he was born at Redcastle.

Though I see from the 1855 valuation roll that Colonel Baillie who was the proprietor of Redcastle was also the proprietor of Tarradale, which is in the parish of Urray immediately next to Redcastle which is in the parish of Killearnan. Hilton is part of the estate of Tarradale.

Anne


aberloursearch@...
 

Hi Anne,

Thank you for taking the time to look at the baptism record for John Mackay i see it the same as you now, is always good to have another set of eyes to look at things.

Regards

Ray


-----Original Message-----
From: Anne Burgess via groups.io <anne.genlists@...>
To: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Jul 15, 2020 2:59 pm
Subject: Re: [ScotGen] John Mackay Problem ..............

Hi Ray

Looks like Hiltown to me. Definitely not an M at the beginning of it.

I see a Hilton between Redcastle and Muir of Ord https://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NH5449 and https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15⪫=57.51272&lon=-4.42572&layers=5&b=1 which is in the parish of Urray. This would fit with the baptism record but not obviously with John saying he was born at Redcastle.

Though I see from the 1855 valuation roll that Colonel Baillie who was the proprietor of Redcastle was also the proprietor of Tarradale, which is in the parish of Urray immediately next to Redcastle which is in the parish of Killearnan. Hilton is part of the estate of Tarradale.

Anne