Topics

Searching for John McLeod


Anne Burgess
 

Good luck ... and it's always worth a look at LIBINDX http://libindx.moray.gov.uk/mainmenu.asp for any deaths in Moray or much od Banffshire - the one who died in Alves in 1929 is the coachman, not the blacksmith.


Claude Hanson
 

Thanks Anne!  Now, I think I'm going to shift my focus a bit to see if I can find a death record for John McLeod soon after the 1881 census  was taken.... I guess I will probe Morayshire because Alves is in that county and also the county where the hospital is. (I have to go back through you messages because you gave me that information.  It will be amazing if I find anything; but not trying is unacceptable!  Claude


On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 3:54 AM Anne Burgess via groups.io <anne.genlists=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:
It's very common indeed for there to be no record of a death before the start of civil registration in 1855.

As I understand it, the Kirk was interested in baptisms to ensure that every child was received into the kirk, and in marriages for the prevention of sin, but it wasn't necessary to mark a death as such because that was simply a transformation into a better life. So you only get death records if they were generated as something else - payment for a mortlcoth, a gravediggers' notebook, a cemetery record, a gravestone, a poor law or hospital record, a will, a sasine, a newspaper announcement and so on.

Christian Munro almost certainly died before 1851, as she is not in the 1851 census with her son and daughters. Nor have I found her anywhere else.

I don't think you are ever going to be certain about the parentage of John Ross or Christian Munro. You don't know where or even roughly when John Ross was born, and for Christian you have an approximate* date of birth, and you know that she was not born in Morayshire.

*As I said somewhere upthread, adults' ages in the 1841 census were supposed to be rounded down to the nearest 5 years, and the census was taken on 7 June 1841. So if 65 is accurate, Christian would have been born between 8 June 1771 and 7 June 1776. There are 9 baptisms of Christ* M*nr* between 1771 and 1776 on Scotland's People, of whom 3 were baptised in Ross and Cromarty. There will be many more whose baptism records, if they ever existed, have not survived.




Anne Burgess
 

It's very common indeed for there to be no record of a death before the start of civil registration in 1855.

As I understand it, the Kirk was interested in baptisms to ensure that every child was received into the kirk, and in marriages for the prevention of sin, but it wasn't necessary to mark a death as such because that was simply a transformation into a better life. So you only get death records if they were generated as something else - payment for a mortlcoth, a gravediggers' notebook, a cemetery record, a gravestone, a poor law or hospital record, a will, a sasine, a newspaper announcement and so on.

Christian Munro almost certainly died before 1851, as she is not in the 1851 census with her son and daughters. Nor have I found her anywhere else.

I don't think you are ever going to be certain about the parentage of John Ross or Christian Munro. You don't know where or even roughly when John Ross was born, and for Christian you have an approximate* date of birth, and you know that she was not born in Morayshire.

*As I said somewhere upthread, adults' ages in the 1841 census were supposed to be rounded down to the nearest 5 years, and the census was taken on 7 June 1841. So if 65 is accurate, Christian would have been born between 8 June 1771 and 7 June 1776. There are 9 baptisms of Christ* M*nr* between 1771 and 1776 on Scotland's People, of whom 3 were baptised in Ross and Cromarty. There will be many more whose baptism records, if they ever existed, have not survived.


Claude Hanson
 

Josephine - Thanks, I looked up your suggestion and it was the wrong one...I'll continue looking elsewhere.


Josephine Conray
 

Hi Claude

 

Found this death record on Scotland People POSSIBLE for Christy

 

 

Surname

Forename

Age at death

Mother's Maiden Name

Year

Ref

RD Name

Image View

ROSS

CHRISTY

1855

069/ 27

Kilmuir Easter (Ross and Cromarty)

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io [mailto:Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io] On Behalf Of Claude Hanson
Sent: Monday, 13 July 2020 2:00 AM
To: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ScotGen] Searching for John McLeod

 

Meg and Anne -
Thanks for your help reminding me how to find Donald Ross's baptism record.  I printed it and it says " 22nd  Aug John Ross, farmer at Heathfield had by his spouse Christy Munro a child baptised named Don'd.  Witnesses David Miller and John Bain   born 21st".  In my notes, I have John Ross and Christy Munro's marriage record is in 1805.  It was interesting to me to see one of the witnesses was John Bain.  My John McLeod, the son of Donald Ross's youngest sister Rebecca was living with a 77 year old John Bain when he was 16, following the death of his mother in 1864.  If it is the same John Bain, he would have had to be 10 years old when he was the witness at his Uncle Donald's baptism.  I think that is a bit unlikely!

Anne, it is the church records for Dyke parish I'm interested in viewing.  I was so surprised when you said there may not be a death record for Christy Munro and the only way I could find where she died is to find a record of a fee the church called for rental of a casket covering owned by the church.  She apparently died sometime between 1841 when she was 65 and 1861 where she is listed as deceased on her daughter Christina's death record.

Any comments concerning my guess at the birth records of John Ross and Christy Munro would be appreciated,

And thanks again for helping this feeble-minded old soul in his search to find the genealogy of his wife's paternal grandfather, John McLeod.  
Claude


Claude Hanson
 

Meg and Anne -
Thanks for your help reminding me how to find Donald Ross's baptism record.  I printed it and it says " 22nd  Aug John Ross, farmer at Heathfield had by his spouse Christy Munro a child baptised named Don'd.  Witnesses David Miller and John Bain   born 21st".  In my notes, I have John Ross and Christy Munro's marriage record is in 1805.  It was interesting to me to see one of the witnesses was John Bain.  My John McLeod, the son of Donald Ross's youngest sister Rebecca was living with a 77 year old John Bain when he was 16, following the death of his mother in 1864.  If it is the same John Bain, he would have had to be 10 years old when he was the witness at his Uncle Donald's baptism.  I think that is a bit unlikely!

Anne, it is the church records for Dyke parish I'm interested in viewing.  I was so surprised when you said there may not be a death record for Christy Munro and the only way I could find where she died is to find a record of a fee the church called for rental of a casket covering owned by the church.  She apparently died sometime between 1841 when she was 65 and 1861 where she is listed as deceased on her daughter Christina's death record.

Any comments concerning my guess at the birth records of John Ross and Christy Munro would be appreciated,

And thanks again for helping this feeble-minded old soul in his search to find the genealogy of his wife's paternal grandfather, John McLeod.  
Claude


Meg
 

Hi Claude

Donald Ross' baptism is on ScotandPeople if you look under Church Register - Old parish Register's - Births. It is indexed under Donald, but I searched as D (beginning with - in search options). If it says he is Natural then he was illegitimate. But under Scot's Law if the parents marry after he becomes legitimate. IF he was illegitimate there will probably be an entry in the Kirk Session Minutes about fornication - unfortunately they are only available in the Registers in Edinburgh or a couple of other centers around Scotland, not online yet, as Ann has already said. The KSM are fascinating reading, but I usually build up a list to investigate then go down and spend a day checking them while visiting friends.

I have found a Janet Ross born Easter Ross dates 7/9/1815 with a strange entry under the parents - ALEXR. ROSS/ANNE ROSS FR 163 MONTH NOT STATED IN ENTRY (FR163) - I can't remember without checking if those are the parents you are looking for, but that extra makes me wonder if the baptism was allot later than the birth. Anyone else seen that before?

I always search 2-5 years either side of the date of the birth. I have one that was baptised many years after birth - think the mother suddenly got religion and got her two legitimate children baptised on the same day when they were in their teens. So it pays to widen searches and be flexible on spellings and if it is indexed by something like Don'd or Donald even when you know what you are looking for.


Anne Burgess
 

The baptism record of Donald Ross on 22 August 1804 in Kilmuir Easter is available to view on Scotland's People. The originals of 99% of the Scottish birth/baptism and banns/marriages indexed on FamilySearch, FMP, Ancestry, MyHeritage etc are on Scotland's People, so that is always the first port of call once you have found it in an index. It is usual for a baptism record of an illegitimate child to say that s/he is illegitimate ('natural' is one of the terms used for 'illegitimate'; also 'born in uncleanness' or 'born in fornication').

The surviving Kirk Session minutes are in the National Records of Scotland. They have all been digitised, and Scotland's People intends to make them available but so far has not managed to do so for technical reasons. In the meantime they can be viewed on-screen in Edinburgh and in a few local archives, but of course they are all closed at the moment because of coronavirus. The Kilmuir Easter ones for the period you are interested in have survived.

Janet Ross may have died in infancy or early childhood, in which case there may not be any record of her after her baptism.

Noting that John Ross and Christian Munro had a Catherine baptised in 1809 and then a Kathrine in 1812, I would think it likely that Catherine b 1809 died in early childhood and that a later child was given the same name, spelled Kathrine in the baptism register for reasons probably known only to the clerk who wrote it down. The later baptism would fit better with the age of Catherine Ross or Bannerman in the census and death certificate.


Claude Hanson
 

Is it possible to find the birth/christening record for Don'd (Donald) Ross on 21 Aug 1804 in Kilmuir-Easter, Ross and Cromarty.  Since I believe he was born a few months before his named parents, I want to see if it says he is illegitimate.

How would I find the Dyke (Morayshire) Kirk Session minutes.

I spent a few hours (not minutes) trying to find Janet Ross, whose birth and and baptism are recorded in 1810 in Kilmuir-Easter, Ross and Chromarty... listed anywhere

On Sat, Jul 11, 2020 at 9:17 PM Claude Hanson via groups.io <claudehanson=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
I'm trying to put this complete family together just in case it is the family my John McLeod is from....and, of course, I won't really know until I can get information from the hospital that would validate that John was born in Dyke and it would be  great if it also reveals he is from Alves!  So I can't put any of this into my McLeod tree now and perhaps never!

John Ross, 31 May 1775 at Kilmuir-Easter, Ross & Cromarty - son of Donald Ross and Anne Frasier
                                 married 2 Feb 1805 at Kilmuir-Easter, Ross and Cromarty
Christian Munro, 20 Feb 1777, in Edinkillie, Morayshire - to John Munro and Isobel Russell
                                                                  Their Children
1.  Don'd (Donald?) 21 Aug 1804, Kilmuir-Easter, Ross and Cromarty (entry lists parents John Ross and Christy Munro -- FHL #990585
2.  Margaret, 1808, Kilmuir-Easter, Ross and Cromarty - married William Mitchell - died in 1880
3.  Catherine, 1809, Kilmuir-Easter, Ross and Cromarty - married George Bannerman - died 1882 (age on death record 67, age on 1861 census 46) ?
4.  Janet, 1810, Kilmuir-Easter, Ross and Cromarty -
5.  Kathryn, 1812, Nigg Associate, Easter-Ross
6.  Isobel, 1812, Nigg Associate Easter-Ross
7.  Christina, 1813, Nigg, Ross and Cromarty - died 9 April 1861 in Forres
8.  Rebecca, 1826, Nairn, Nairnshire, - married David Winchester 13 June 1862 - died 2 May 1864 in Forres








Claude Hanson
 

I'm trying to put this complete family together just in case it is the family my John McLeod is from....and, of course, I won't really know until I can get information from the hospital that would validate that John was born in Dyke and it would be  great if it also reveals he is from Alves!  So I can't put any of this into my McLeod tree now and perhaps never!

John Ross, 31 May 1775 at Kilmuir-Easter, Ross & Cromarty - son of Donald Ross and Anne Frasier
                                 married 2 Feb 1805 at Kilmuir-Easter, Ross and Cromarty
Christian Munro, 20 Feb 1777, in Edinkillie, Morayshire - to John Munro and Isobel Russell
                                                                  Their Children
1.  Don'd (Donald?) 21 Aug 1804, Kilmuir-Easter, Ross and Cromarty (entry lists parents John Ross and Christy Munro -- FHL #990585
2.  Margaret, 1808, Kilmuir-Easter, Ross and Cromarty - married William Mitchell - died in 1880
3.  Catherine, 1809, Kilmuir-Easter, Ross and Cromarty - married George Bannerman - died 1882 (age on death record 67, age on 1861 census 46) ?
4.  Janet, 1810, Kilmuir-Easter, Ross and Cromarty -
5.  Kathryn, 1812, Nigg Associate, Easter-Ross
6.  Isobel, 1812, Nigg Associate Easter-Ross
7.  Christina, 1813, Nigg, Ross and Cromarty - died 9 April 1861 in Forres
8.  Rebecca, 1826, Nairn, Nairnshire, - married David Winchester 13 June 1862 - died 2 May 1864 in Forres








Anne Burgess
 

Yes, sorry, I mistyped Munro for Ross.

If David Winchester could get his mother-in-law's name wrong, then so could William Mitchell. There wouldn't be a sexton - the Church of Scotland doesn't use the term sexton.

William Mitchell and Margaret Ross had Jean 1833, Jane 1826, William 1828, John 1831, Ann 1833, Margaret 1835, Mary 1838, Christina 1839, William 1840, Jessie 1843; Donald 1847. There may well have been others whose baptisms are missing.

In the 1841 census, at Broom of Moy, are William Mitchell, 30; Margaret, 30; John, 8; Ann, 6; Margaret, 4; May, 2; William, 9 months.
In the 1851 census, at Village of Broom (which is Broom of Moy, parish of Dyke) are William Mitchell, 47; wife Margaret, 47; Mary, 15; William, 9; Janet, 7; Donald, 3. Margaret was born in Nigg R&C, the rest in Dyke.
In the 1861 census at Village of Broom are William Mitchell, 55, born Forres and wife Margaret Ross, 54, born Nigg.

It looks as if Jean, Jane, the first William and Christina must all have died young.

Margaret Mitchell, other surname Ross, died in Dyke in 1880 aged 76. Her death was registered by George Bannerman, nephew, who gave her mother's name as Margaret, surname unknown. Father's name John is a match. Her age in 1841 is a match for Margaret Ross, born 1808 but it's adrift in the other records.

George Bannerman, son of George Bannerman and Catherine Ross, was born on 24 November 1849 in Dyke. In the 1861 census at Kintessack, parish of Dyke, are Catherine Bannerman, widow, 46, born *Nairn*, with Elspet, 20; Jessie, 15; Catherine, 13 and George, 11. Catherine Bannerman, other surname Ross, died in Dyke in 1882 aged 67. Her parents were John Ross and **Christina Munro**. The informant was George Bannerman, son.

I am now wondering why George, who in 1882 knew that his grandmother was Christina Munro, apparently did not think in 1880 that his aunt Margaret's mother was Christina Munro. Could Margaret have been a daughter of John Ross by an earlier marriage? Her age in the 1851 and 1861 census, and on her death certificate, would support this. On the other hand, if she was Christian Munro's stepdaughter, why would Christian's own daughter have been named Margaret in 1808?

Genalogy's like that. One answer raises at least two new questions :)


Anne Burgess
 

Yes, I am using a Windows 10 PC, and no, it will not run the 1881 UK census CD-ROMs, or indeed the similar Canada and US census ones. And I have been unable to get W10 to run PAF.

However I have a friend who is 'into' computing and he set up a Virtual Windows XP on my W10. What this means is that when I want to run a program that is too obsolete for W10 I boot up the XP software in a sort of separate compartment in the PC and then it all runs quite happily. It's called a VMware Workstation 12 Player, but I have absolutely no idea how to set it up.

Anne


Claude Hanson
 

I just found a William Mitchell b. 1797 in Dyke married on 16 June 1822  Margaret Ross who was b. in 1801 and they had 12 childen, I found this on Family Search.

This morning I found on Anc.com a Don'd Ross b. 21 Aug 1804, and bapt. 22 Aug 1804 in Kilmur-Easter, Ross & Chromarty to a John Ross and Christy Monro.  FHL #990585

What do you think?
Claude


Claude Hanson
 

Anne:
Wow!  I appreciate the way you think and am very happy to have helping solve my problem.  As I've mentioned before, I started my genealogy efforts in 1979 and I know quality thinking when I encounter it.  I've made many assumptions and had to backtrack that I can tell when someone is trying to tell me to slow down and know that eventually you'll have to triangulate the data before you can prove it.
Now, to your question, I'm thinking you meant Donald Ross.... not Donald Munro.  I read the death record more closely this morning...and here is what I've  found.  He was single and died August 16. 1857 in Snab.  He was 49 years old.  His father was John Ross and his mother was Mary (maiden name not given).  That would infer his  birth date as either '07, '08, or '09.  He was buried in Dyke and there was no sexton.  The informant was William Mitchell, brother-in-law.  He could be the husband of one of those possible older sisters....as usual, a new clue to investigate!!!
     Have a great day!
Claude

On Thu, Jul 9, 2020 at 3:29 AM Allan MacBain <testerscot@...> wrote:
Not to try to hijack this thread; but...
Are you on a Windows 10 computer, Ann? And, if so, how are you managing to view the 1881 data discs? 
I have the set, but can't find a clear solution to accessing it on a Win10 system.

Also... I *really* want access to the various Kirk Session records!!! :D

Allan MacBain MBCS
Associate Genealogist (UK & Europe), Clan MacBean Association

On Thu, 9 Jul 2020 at 09:34, Anne Burgess via groups.io <anne.genlists=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:
Ross and Cromarty is the name of the county, and it is informally divided into Easter Ross and Wester Ross. All the places we have mentioned in R&C so far are in Easter Ross.

I wouldn't dismiss the other children born to John Ross and Christian Munro in Easter Ross. Christian was listed as aged 65 in 1841, so she could have been anything between 65 and 69 if that is accurate, so born between 1771 and 1776. A marriage date of 1805 would fit, and the last two children were baptised in Nigg, which is where Donald says that he and Christina were born. There's a long gap between 1805 and Donald's birth year, so it would all fit together.

I have to confess to cheating slightly with the 1881 census, because I have a set of the LDS CD-ROM transcription of the 1881 census, which makes searching a lot easier once you are aware of its quirks. Ladysbridge Hospital is in the County of Banff, Parish of Boyndie. Census 1881, parish No 143, Enumeration book 3, page 10.

It's quite likely that there is no surviving record of Christian's death. The best you could hope for would be a record in the Dyke Kirk Session minutes of payment for the mortcloth. Every parish had a mortcloth (or sometimes more than one) which was draped over the coffin during the funeral service, and there was a fee for the use of it, the money going towards the funds for the relief of the poor of the parish. These amounts are often listed in the parish accounts. The Kirk Session is the committee made up of minister and elders that runs the business of the kirk. The records are mostly held in the National Records of Scotland, and the do include the Dyke KS for the relevant years. They KS minutes have all been digitised, and Scotland's People intends to make them available but so far has not managed to do so for technical reasons. In the meantime they can be viewed on-screen in Edinburgh and in a few local archives, but of course they are all closed at the moment because of coronavirus.

Out of curiosity, who were the parents of the Donald Munro who died in Dyke in 1857, and who was the informant?






Allan MacBain
 

Not to try to hijack this thread; but...
Are you on a Windows 10 computer, Ann? And, if so, how are you managing to view the 1881 data discs? 
I have the set, but can't find a clear solution to accessing it on a Win10 system.

Also... I *really* want access to the various Kirk Session records!!! :D

Allan MacBain MBCS
Associate Genealogist (UK & Europe), Clan MacBean Association

On Thu, 9 Jul 2020 at 09:34, Anne Burgess via groups.io <anne.genlists=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:
Ross and Cromarty is the name of the county, and it is informally divided into Easter Ross and Wester Ross. All the places we have mentioned in R&C so far are in Easter Ross.

I wouldn't dismiss the other children born to John Ross and Christian Munro in Easter Ross. Christian was listed as aged 65 in 1841, so she could have been anything between 65 and 69 if that is accurate, so born between 1771 and 1776. A marriage date of 1805 would fit, and the last two children were baptised in Nigg, which is where Donald says that he and Christina were born. There's a long gap between 1805 and Donald's birth year, so it would all fit together.

I have to confess to cheating slightly with the 1881 census, because I have a set of the LDS CD-ROM transcription of the 1881 census, which makes searching a lot easier once you are aware of its quirks. Ladysbridge Hospital is in the County of Banff, Parish of Boyndie. Census 1881, parish No 143, Enumeration book 3, page 10.

It's quite likely that there is no surviving record of Christian's death. The best you could hope for would be a record in the Dyke Kirk Session minutes of payment for the mortcloth. Every parish had a mortcloth (or sometimes more than one) which was draped over the coffin during the funeral service, and there was a fee for the use of it, the money going towards the funds for the relief of the poor of the parish. These amounts are often listed in the parish accounts. The Kirk Session is the committee made up of minister and elders that runs the business of the kirk. The records are mostly held in the National Records of Scotland, and the do include the Dyke KS for the relevant years. They KS minutes have all been digitised, and Scotland's People intends to make them available but so far has not managed to do so for technical reasons. In the meantime they can be viewed on-screen in Edinburgh and in a few local archives, but of course they are all closed at the moment because of coronavirus.

Out of curiosity, who were the parents of the Donald Munro who died in Dyke in 1857, and who was the informant?






Anne Burgess
 

Ross and Cromarty is the name of the county, and it is informally divided into Easter Ross and Wester Ross. All the places we have mentioned in R&C so far are in Easter Ross.

I wouldn't dismiss the other children born to John Ross and Christian Munro in Easter Ross. Christian was listed as aged 65 in 1841, so she could have been anything between 65 and 69 if that is accurate, so born between 1771 and 1776. A marriage date of 1805 would fit, and the last two children were baptised in Nigg, which is where Donald says that he and Christina were born. There's a long gap between 1805 and Donald's birth year, so it would all fit together.

I have to confess to cheating slightly with the 1881 census, because I have a set of the LDS CD-ROM transcription of the 1881 census, which makes searching a lot easier once you are aware of its quirks. Ladysbridge Hospital is in the County of Banff, Parish of Boyndie. Census 1881, parish No 143, Enumeration book 3, page 10.

It's quite likely that there is no surviving record of Christian's death. The best you could hope for would be a record in the Dyke Kirk Session minutes of payment for the mortcloth. Every parish had a mortcloth (or sometimes more than one) which was draped over the coffin during the funeral service, and there was a fee for the use of it, the money going towards the funds for the relief of the poor of the parish. These amounts are often listed in the parish accounts. The Kirk Session is the committee made up of minister and elders that runs the business of the kirk. The records are mostly held in the National Records of Scotland, and the do include the Dyke KS for the relevant years. They KS minutes have all been digitised, and Scotland's People intends to make them available but so far has not managed to do so for technical reasons. In the meantime they can be viewed on-screen in Edinburgh and in a few local archives, but of course they are all closed at the moment because of coronavirus.

Out of curiosity, who were the parents of the Donald Munro who died in Dyke in 1857, and who was the informant?


Claude Hanson
 

Thanks Anne:  
I feel better in knowing you are not irritated with me.... and thanks for the suggestions.  I'm thinking those kids born to a couple with the same name are not in the same family that has three siblings - Donald, Christina, and Rebecca.  But, I'll continue to look.  I remember years and years ago when I was trying to find the parents of my John Ross (b. abt. 1814 in Kinloss) that finding the right Alexander Ross and Margaret Bremner in that Ross Chromity (?) took me months to find the right one.... but, that was 30 or more years ago and we didn't have computers....  
     I'm anxious to get the records from Ladybridge Hospital to see if the John McLeod on the 1881 census was really from Dyke.  From the information I received from the archivist, it will probably be months, years, or never before she can look at those records.  I tried to find the census to see what you saw; but my ignorance on how to use Scotland's People overwhelmed me!!!  By the way, I did find a death record for Christina Ross in Forres.  She died a year or two before Rebecca's marriage and death.  I haven't found anything abt their brother Donald....and I haven't found a death record for their mother Christian.  Oh well, these problems are very minor when compared with our real problems in the U.S. -- the President and the virus!!!!

Claude

On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 2:12 AM Anne Burgess via groups.io <anne.genlists=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:
No, you are not getting on my nerves.

I did find it irritating that someone made exactly the assumption that I had specifically warned against in an earlier message in this very thread, but that isn't important.

The most likely one, I suggest, is John Ross to Chrity Munro in Kilmuir Easter on 22 March 1805. (The index spells her name as Chrity). However don't expect too much from the original record. It will not, for instance, tell you the names of their parents.

There are baptisms of Margaret, 1808; Catherine, 1809; Janet, 1810 and Kathrine and Isabel, 1812, to parents with these names, the first three in the Church of Scotland registers (Kilmuir Easter, Cromarty and Rosskeen respectively) and the last two in Nigg Associate, all in Easter Ross.

There is also a Margaret in 1813 in Edinburgh. This last one could be a couple with the same names, of course, as it's a long way from Easter Ross to Edinburgh.

So it all looks plausible, but I am not sure how easy it would be to prove it is the same family.




Anne Burgess
 

No, you are not getting on my nerves.

I did find it irritating that someone made exactly the assumption that I had specifically warned against in an earlier message in this very thread, but that isn't important.

The most likely one, I suggest, is John Ross to Chrity Munro in Kilmuir Easter on 22 March 1805. (The index spells her name as Chrity). However don't expect too much from the original record. It will not, for instance, tell you the names of their parents.

There are baptisms of Margaret, 1808; Catherine, 1809; Janet, 1810 and Kathrine and Isabel, 1812, to parents with these names, the first three in the Church of Scotland registers (Kilmuir Easter, Cromarty and Rosskeen respectively) and the last two in Nigg Associate, all in Easter Ross.

There is also a Margaret in 1813 in Edinburgh. This last one could be a couple with the same names, of course, as it's a long way from Easter Ross to Edinburgh.

So it all looks plausible, but I am not sure how easy it would be to prove it is the same family.


Claude Hanson
 

Anne:  Just got a message from the group and apparently my message last night about my contact with the Grampian cite and the fact that I'm not searching for the marriage of Christian Munro and John Ross, the parents of Donald, Christina, and Rebecca.  The message wasn't delivered because it didn't have a subject... it asked me to put the subject in and send it again.... I tried and couldn't figure out how to do that.  Sorry for the confusion.  My ignorance is overwhelming!!!  Claude


On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 1:31 PM Wayne Shepheard <wshepheard@...> wrote:
Ann,

Normally I would agree with you but in the case of my wife's grandfather and great-grandmother, the information about parentage on their marriage records (two each) was not correct. In fact, both told fibs all the way through their lives, on marriage records, censuses, military service records, etc. The only accurate information about great-gramma's parentage was on her death information which was given by a nephew, a son of one of her sisters. Both of her sisters, by the way, did offer the correct information about their parents on their own marriage records.

Grandpa, perhaps because he was illegitimate, rarely gave the correct information about his parentage. Information about his parents on his death record, unfortunately, was wrong as well. I think this was because the informant, my wife's mother, was never told the entire truth about her father's family. She took the erroneous information from her father's marriage record.

The lesson here is never completely trust any record, but look for many different sources in order to determine what might be the real truth about relationships.

Wayne Shepheard


On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 4:05 AM Anne Burgess via groups.io <anne.genlists=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:
I think that is wrong information by her widower. When there is a conflict between information on a marriage and information on the death certificate, I tend to believe the marriage because in that case the person is alive to provide the information, whereas with a death certificate the information is only as good as what the informant thinks he knows.



Claude Hanson
 

Anne:  As I told you in a previous message, I also printed that marriage from Scotspeople.  I am now looking for a marriage record the Chistian Munro and a John Ross, the parents of Donald, Christina and Rebecca.  Unless I'm interpreting this last message from wrong, I must be getting on your nerves.  If so, I'm sorry.  I'm curious and ignorant and try not to be witless and thoughtless.  I do appreciate all the help you have provided.  Claude


On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 6:20 AM Josephine Conray <javc@...> wrote:
Sorry for trying to help I will keep out of it.





-----Original Message-----
From: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io [mailto:Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io] On Behalf Of Anne Burgess via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, 7 July 2020 7:15 PM
To: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ScotGen] Searching for John McLeod

Indeed, all that information is readily available, But it is all transcriptions and index listings.

"Working on the marriage date she should have been born about 1841". Well, too bad, but making wild guesses like that is how errors get into online trees. I even warned about this particular assumption in a post two days ago on this very thread. I have only seen a small proportion of all the marriage certificates in the Scottish records - just under 5,000 for my own family and maybe another couple of thousand for other people's trees - and the number of women who married at age 21 (let alone younger) is very low. Most were in their mid to late 20s at marriage.

Also, as I have already said upthread, I bought a copy of the marriage certificate of David Winchester and Rebeccia Ross. It says there, in clearly handwritten black and white, that David was 25 and Rebecca was 35. Yes, thirty-five years old. Not 21. This is consistent with her age in the assorted censuses and with her death aged 38.

Those extracts from assorted indexes are very useful indeed far saving time hunting down the original records. You can then go to a Family History Centre, arrange to rent one of the FHL films mentioned about, and then go back, view the films in the FHC, and make notes from it. Or you can go online to www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk and download digital images of the certificates on the spot, for less than the cost of a cup of coffee or a pint of beer each.

There is ***NO*** substitute for looking at the original documents.