Hello all.  Some years back, with Scotland’s People, familyhistory.uk, and some other sources, I attempted to find my McKay family roots, in Scotland, Ireland, or wherever the facts would take me. I never joined Ancestry, as money was tight at the time, but I did have some success.

John McKay is my 2nd great gf. I tracked him from New York, back to Canada, and ultimately Drainie, Morayshire. He appears in 2 Censuses, 1851 and 1861. In 1861, living on Ardgye Farm, his family is as follows:

William, head, 39
Margaret (maiden name Cobban), wife, 40
John, 12
Margaret, 9
Alexander, 7
Elizabeth, 4
William, 1

I have a William McKay, presumably my 3rd great gf, born in 1821 in Knockbain, Ross Shire. A birth record for 4 July lists a William born to Alexander and Margaret Simpson. If these are in fact my 4th great g parents, I have them being married 17 April, 1806 in Urquhart, with another son Alexander, born in 1816. That is all the documentation I was able to find, and that is as far back as I have been able to take the McKays.

I did find a Margaret Cobban b 1817 in New Spynie, Moray, to John and Elizabeth Cooper. My Margaret gave the name Cooper to her daughter Elizabeth as a middle name, so I made the leap of faith that this was her, which lead me to a Cobban branch in New Spynie going back to the 1700’s - thanks to the previous genealogical work of others.

What I would be interested in knowing is if I have traced my 3rd great gf William correctly, and, if so, if it is possible to take the McKays back further, to William's parents, etc.

And I would like to know the fate of my 2nd great gf John’s siblings - Margaret, Alexander, etc. I couldn’t find any promising McKays in Scotland in 1871 or 1881. Did all emigrate? If so, where to? Only my John appears to have made it to Canada.

And if anyone wants to disprove my Margaret Cobban being on this deep-rooted Cobban branch, I suppose I would welcome that too.

If there are any knowledgeable, resourceful people out there better at this than I am, I would appreciate any insights you can provide.

Regards,
John Mackay, Chicago USA.

Have you found William McKay's death certificate? It should tell you the names of both his parents.

There's a death of Margaret Cobban, other surname McKay, aged 90, in Cromarty in 1908. Go to www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk, invest in a few credits, and use a few of them to download the certificate. That should confirm the names of Margaret's parents and the name and occupation of her husband.

The 1901 census (a transcription) shows William McKay, 79, steamboat agent, wife Margaret, 83 and daughter Elizabeth, 44, born Alves, living in Cromarty. You can get the original of the census from Scotland's People.

There is a death of William McKay, 82, in Cromarty in 1903. This looks like your William. Once again, get his death certificate from Scotland's People and it should tell you the names of his parents.

You were wise not to subscribe to Ancestry, as you would not have found any of this information there.

Happy hunting!

Anne

PS Elizabeth Cooper McKay, aged 78, died in Inverness in 1935. If her death was registered by a relative, it might provide a clue to where her siblings went.

Anne

Thanks so much, Anne. I never came across any death records in Scotland. As I recall (and it has been a few years), the paper trail ran out after I found the above. I did not look specifically for death certificates, but I will now.

Your comment about Ancestry was interesting. I’ve always wondered what I may have missed by not joining.

Thanks again for these leads. It will be good to get back into this again.

John

It depends how many years, but digital images of original Scottish BMD and census records have been available on a pay-per-view basis for about 15 years. Ancestry has a few of those, and some (notoriously error-prone) transcriptions of the census, but only Scotland's People has the complete set. There are other transcriptions available for example FindMyPast (1841-1901, with transcription errors) and FreeCEN https://freecen1.freecen.org.uk/cgi/search.pl which is more accurate but a long way from having full coverage.

See https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=714261.0

Anne

Hi Anne

I can see that you are clearly better at all of this than I am.  At this point I am 1 for 4.

When I search SP for William McKay deaths the closest I get is an 83 yr old in 1903, in Marnoch. Only one year off in age from what you said, but I trust your hunting skills more than my own. In fact, when I search all William McKay deaths in all of Scotland in 1903, I get just this one in Marnoch. I don’t find any Williams in Cromarty in any year.

I did find Margaret’s 1908 death record in SP. I haven’t bought credits yet to download, because I want to see how many total I might need.

For the 1901 Census I do find a William McKay in Ross and Cromarty in SP, but he is 80, not 79. If you think that is close enough I will download it, but, again, I trust your skills more than mine.

In SP I don’t find any Elizabeth McKays dying in all of Scotland in 1935 even close to the age of 78. And none in Inverness. When I look at Inverness specifically I find an 82 yr old dying in 1930 and a 74 yr old dying in 1945.

Thanks,

John

Hi Goldie,

A few years ago, going through some US Census data, I came across some confusing data that, it seems, could only be explained by some combination of my great grandmother not wanting to admit she had aged 10 years since the previous one, and not wanting to say she was 2 years older than her husband. Made her great grandson laugh from the grave! So, I try to allow a little wiggle room while looking at these.

My apologies, John. It is so automatic for me to search using wildcards that I completely forgot to say that I searched for M*c*k*y not McKay. In the 1901 census, and on both death certificates, William and Elizabeth's surname is recorded as Mackay not McKay so if you search using McKay you won't find them.

You have to buy a minumum of 30 credits which is enough to view all three deaths and the 1901 census, with enough left over for one more document.

Best wishes

Anne

We’re going to need more credits. That’s a Jaws joke, which may not translate outside the US.

Thank you both so much. The inclusion of the Mackay spelling is really opening things up. I appear to have found the family in the previously missing 1871, 1881, and 1891 Censuses.

I knew that the spelling of one’s name wasn’t always consistent back then, but in my digging it was always McKay up to 1861. It seems there was a conscious decision to change it after that: I’m seeing death certificate registrants signing it like that and not going back to the former way (it wasn’t just a Census taker’s assumption).

Ironically, it was the McKay spelling that helped me first find my 2nd great grandfather years ago: I was told that looking for a John Mackay of interminate age of no known parentage and no known Scottish locality would have been much more challenging; the McKay spelling really narrowed things down.

Bear in mind, I am John Mackay. It was my 2nd g gf’s Canadian marriage record that said it was once McKay. This actually made sense to me: In the 1880’s the US was quite anti-Catholic; he would have changed it when he emigrated to NY - to look like what he was, a Scottish Protestant.

So far, it looks like all of the work I did years ago was actually correct - my initial inquiry regarding whether I had in fact found my 4th great g parents, and whether I was indeed tied to the Cobban branch documented back to the 1700s. It remains to be seen whether I can reach back further.

Maybe expect some small follow-up questions. For now I have a lot to chew on. Such a great quarantine project!

Regards,

John

YES. I have ancestors whose names were spelled several different ways within a quite short time frame. So many ways for that to happen. Did the person writing it come from that area or from far away? Did the recorder hear right? Did the person supplying the info speak clearly? And so on and so on.

Goldie is absolutely right. The way a surname is spelled has absolutely no significance, especially when it's a matter of Mc versus Mac.

Mackay is commoner than McKay (SP has 370,226 references to Mackay and 264,248 to McKay) but it's always important to search for both spellings because so many people's name are spelled differently in different sources.

Anne

Thank you all.

William’s 1903 death record confirms my work from 2016 pointing to Alexander McKay / Mackay and Margaret Simpson being my 4th great grandparents. All I have been able to find on them is an 1806 marriage record (Culbokie, Ross and Cromarty), and the births / baptisms of William (1821) and Alexander Jr (1816), both in Knochbain.

I have tried locating death records for Alexander and Margaret, hoping that would tell me their parents. But I don’t know their ages (don’t appear in the marriage record). And I haven’t found them in any Census. I have spent many, many hours trying to find them in 1841, focusing on Ross and Cromarty (which was flooded with McKays), with a range of ages. Many Alexanders married to many Margarets, both with and without sons named William and Alexander, who might be on their own by 1841, but no luck so far pulling it all together.

I’m left wondering, with such common names and no years of birth, is this a hopeless search? Maybe someone who hasn’t been staring at these names for hours on end can see things more clearly?

Thanks!

John

Hi Josephine,

That is definitely the marriage; I have a copy of the record from SP. If that is from Ancestry, can you tell me if you see anything interesting there? Maybe an age? All I see when I click on Margaret’s name is an Ancestry ad.

The name Donald does sound familiar; probably something I found in 2016 that did not pan out.

If Alexander was in the army I would hope to find him in a later census - 1841, 1851, etc, and that has been my challenge. My suspicion is the family was in another county, not Ross and Cromarty. But if, with no birth year, it is that difficult to track them in one county, I don’t see finding them elsewhere - again, very common names.

But thank you for trying.

John

If you have a copy of the original document from Scotland's People, there is no point looking for anything different on Ancestry because it will be from the same document.

If