Date   

Re: Duich Lotts

Morag Fowler
 

Hi Edie,

Allotments in the UK tend to be at the edge of a town, all grouped together. I think what you described behind houses would be just back gardens being put to good use.

Did you know that there is a specific Islay group? Islay@Scotland-Genealogy. groups.io

Best wishes, Morag


Re: Thomson/Thompson in the Borders of Scotland.

Josephine Conray
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io [mailto:Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io] On Behalf Of Anne Burgess via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, 20 December 2020 8:56 PM
To: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ScotGen] Thomson/Thompson in the Borders of Scotland.

The union of the parish of Ashkirk to the parish of Selkirk took place in 1986 (see http://selkirkparish.church/about-us/congregation-and-parish/), so in in relation to baptisms and banns in the Church of Scotland registers in the middle of the 18th century it is completely irrelevant (I am surprised that the Borders FHS sees fit to say so, because they must be aware that mentioning a parish merger that took place in 1986 is not useful information for anyone looking for records over two centuries older). They were entirely separate parishes at that time. The implication of this is that if anyone mentioned in the registers of a particular parish lived in a different parish, the entry in the register will almost always say which parish they lived in.

Second, all the surviving registers of the Church of Scotland have been digitised and are available at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk. As part of the legislation that set up the statutory civil registration system the Church of Scotland was required by law to hand over all its surviving pre-1855 registers to the Registrar General for Scotland so that they would be preserved and safeguarded for the future. This is why all this information is now available in one place.

However other denominations were not compelled to hand over their registers. Many of these, however, have since found their way into various archives.

The registers of dissenting denominations do not necessarily always cover the same geographical areas as the Church of Scotland parish registers, because their congregations were often smaller and a single place of worship might draw its congregation from several Chuch of Scotland parishes. This means that the places people lived are lkely to be spread over a wider area than is the case in the Church of Scotland registers.

I am mystified by the one you saw on microfilm, however. I have tried many times to find the baptism of Euphans Thomson in both the IGI and the FS general records, without success, so I can't follow the trail from that event back to the source of the information. It isn't listed in the catalogue of the National Records of Scotland (https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/research/catalogues-and-indexes). There is a register of the Midholm (Midlem) United Original Secession Church, with the following description: "The congregation of Midholm (or Midlem) belonged to the Antiburgher branch of the Secession church, and was first established in 1742, the year in which Patrick Matthew the first minister of the charge was ordained. The church was built a number of years thereafter in 1746. The congregation sat within the Presbytery of Melrose. In 1820 the congregation became part of the United Original Secession Church, and remained as such until 1938 when the congregation was dissolved." However the catalogue listing (CH3/234) says that it covers only the period from 1845 to 1938). This register is now in the Scottish Borders Archive and Local History Centre in Hawick, but can be viewed as part of the 'Virtual Volumes' at the National Records of Scptland and in other local archives that has access to the VV system, but as it doesn't cover the 18th century it isn't much use in this instance.

I would be very interested indeed in finding out how the LDS got the register you saw on microfilm, where the original book is, and most of all why I can't find the baptism of Euphans Thomson (or her brother, but I concentrated on her because her name is much less common) in the online indexes on the FS web site.

Anne


Re: Duich Lotts

Edie Mc
 

The lotts sound a little like the Allottments that some English homes have at the back, as a lot of English gardens are small especially in the tenement type homes joined together.  We rented a home in Uxbridge, along Oxford Road, in 1996 on a working holiday from Austalia and at the back was this allotment and there were several joined to other neighbours. Vegetables were grown there mostly.

Edie

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Glynn Currie
Sent: Sunday, 20 December 2020 21:35
To: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ScotGen] Duich Lotts

 

Thanks once again John.

Glynn

 

 

 

Sent from my Galaxy

 

 

-------- Original message --------

From: "John Kemplen via groups.io" <john.kemplen@...>

Date: 2020-12-20 02:09 (GMT-08:00)

To: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io

Subject: Re: [ScotGen] Duich Lotts

 

Hi Glynn

The link that Diane gave you is a good one which accurately describes Duich Lots as a group of agricultural holdings.  In English terminology it might be described as a hamlet, but it would not qualify as a village and certainly not as a town.  The agricultural holdings would not have been large enough to warrant the name "farm".  I think a collection of crofts might be the nearest thing to an accurate description.

The Zoopla reference is from a highly automated modern property database, and I am afraid that in this case it may be rather misleading in including the word "Duich".  The location marked on the Zoopla map is NOT Duich or Duich Lots.  It is in an area that Islay folk may call just "the Lotts".  I believe the unnamed road that it refers to is probably the road from Glenegedale on the A846 up to the B8016 between Glenegedale Lots and Glenegedalemoor Lots.  That road does indeed have several occupied houses on it, but the area is very unlikely to have ever been thought of as Duich or Duich Lots.  No buildings on Duich Lots are inhabited and they are all in a ruined state; they would not feature in a modern property database.

Regards

John

 

On 20/12/2020 06:43, Glynn Currie wrote:

Thanks Edie. That is interesting. Might have to break open the old piggy bank to rebuy the old farm!🤔

 

 

 

Sent from my Galaxy

 

 

-------- Original message --------

From: Edie Mc <eamca1944@...>

Date: 2020-12-19 22:13 (GMT-08:00)

Subject: Re: [ScotGen] Duich Lotts

 

There is also a house sale at Duich, Lotts. Islay, Scotland It is situated on an un named road with 15 houses on it.  Could be where your ancestor lived in one of  the fifteen houses.

Edie

 

https://www.zoopla.co.uk/property/duich/lotts/isle-of-islay/pa42-7dd/17937583

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Glynn Currie
Sent: Sunday, 20 December 2020 12:11
To: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io; John Kemplen
Subject: Re: [ScotGen] Duich Lotts

 

A question that has just occured to me after reading John's reply: Would Duich Lotts be a name that applied to a group of several farms developed near one another, or would it be a single farm worked by one family? Would it be termed a croft?

Glynn

 

 


--
EdieMc

 

Virus-free. www.avast.com

 


--
EdieMc


Re: Duich Lotts

Glynn Currie
 

I love the information John. Thank you. This whole thread is a bit of a break through for me so I am quite excited by the many responses.
Glynn



Sent from my Galaxy


-------- Original message --------
From: John Kemplen <john.kemplen@...>
Date: 2020-12-20 07:47 (GMT-08:00)
To: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io, Glynn Currie <glynn.currie@...>
Subject: Re: [ScotGen] Duich Lotts

Sorry to drip-feed information.  I have asked on the "Old Islay" Facebook site what at "lot" is in this context and was directed to this web page:
https://www.croftingyear.org.uk/the-township-system.asp

It did not display correctly on my browser (pictures covering text).  I could find the text by selecting the page and copying it into Word.  In case you have the same problem, here is the relevant text from that page:
"The system of crofting as we know it today began to take shape as a result of the Highland Clearances. A crofting township was made up of several families who worked the same croft land. Land was allocated by a 'run-rig' system which meant that each crofter was given strips of land. These strips were reallocated annually to ensure that the good and the bad land was shared equally. This system did not encourage improvement of the soil and was replaced by a 'lot' system where each crofter was given his own individual lot of land. The lots were kept deliberately small by landlords so that the tenants would be forced to take on additional work for the landlord."

Regards

John


On 19/12/2020 23:30, John Kemplen wrote:

Hello Glynn

The place east of Bowmore is, a believe, usually known as Dluich.  I have never seen anywhere else beginning with "Dl" and I have no idea how to say it, but there it is.

The place your people came from is south of Bowmore.  Duich is on the A846 ("the Low Road") where it crosses the Duich River, and Duich Lots (or Lotts) is about a mile east of there, just over half way to the B8016 ("the High Road") and a little way north of Loch Dhomhnull.  It is still named on good maps, but nobody lives there any more.  You can see some rather sad pictures of some of the abandoned cottages there if you follow this link:
http://www.hiddenglasgow.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=6649

There are a few other places called Lotts or Lots in that area - Glenegedale Lots, Glenegedalemoor Lots, Glenmachrie Lots - all on very peaty land between Bowmore and Port Ellen.  I do not know what the term means, but it seems to relate to outlying land associated with the place with the name without "Lotts" after it, often rather poor land at that.

I have found that the best website for finding very detailed modern maps of Scotland is Canmore.  Start here:
https://canmore.org.uk/site/search/result?SITECOUNTRY=0&view=map
and zoom in on Islay.  Because it is really meant for finding sites of historical interest the detail can be obscured by blue blobs marking the sites.  To get rid of them, just go to the menu inset into the top right corner of the map, click on "Canmore" and then on the "Search Results" box.

I hope this helps.  If you still have difficulty finding the location or have other Islay-related questions, do not hesitate to ask.

Regards

John



On 19/12/2020 20:58, Glynn Currie wrote:

Both my paternal grandparents were born on Islay. I have been told about the Island ever since I was very young. Grampa was John Currie, born in 1879 at Duich Lotts. His father was Donald Currie and his mother was Catherine McFadyen.
I would like to locate the farm where he was born and learn a bit about it. On an old map of Islay that I found on the internet I can see two places named Duich. One is located close to Bowmore, a little north and east. The other is located south and east of Bowmore, near the present day airport.
Would anyone know anything about these two locations which would allow me to learn which place was my grandfather's home?



Virus-free. www.avast.com


Re: Duich Lotts

John Kemplen
 

Sorry to drip-feed information.  I have asked on the "Old Islay" Facebook site what at "lot" is in this context and was directed to this web page:
https://www.croftingyear.org.uk/the-township-system.asp

It did not display correctly on my browser (pictures covering text).  I could find the text by selecting the page and copying it into Word.  In case you have the same problem, here is the relevant text from that page:
"The system of crofting as we know it today began to take shape as a result of the Highland Clearances. A crofting township was made up of several families who worked the same croft land. Land was allocated by a 'run-rig' system which meant that each crofter was given strips of land. These strips were reallocated annually to ensure that the good and the bad land was shared equally. This system did not encourage improvement of the soil and was replaced by a 'lot' system where each crofter was given his own individual lot of land. The lots were kept deliberately small by landlords so that the tenants would be forced to take on additional work for the landlord."

Regards

John


On 19/12/2020 23:30, John Kemplen wrote:

Hello Glynn

The place east of Bowmore is, a believe, usually known as Dluich.  I have never seen anywhere else beginning with "Dl" and I have no idea how to say it, but there it is.

The place your people came from is south of Bowmore.  Duich is on the A846 ("the Low Road") where it crosses the Duich River, and Duich Lots (or Lotts) is about a mile east of there, just over half way to the B8016 ("the High Road") and a little way north of Loch Dhomhnull.  It is still named on good maps, but nobody lives there any more.  You can see some rather sad pictures of some of the abandoned cottages there if you follow this link:
http://www.hiddenglasgow.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=6649

There are a few other places called Lotts or Lots in that area - Glenegedale Lots, Glenegedalemoor Lots, Glenmachrie Lots - all on very peaty land between Bowmore and Port Ellen.  I do not know what the term means, but it seems to relate to outlying land associated with the place with the name without "Lotts" after it, often rather poor land at that.

I have found that the best website for finding very detailed modern maps of Scotland is Canmore.  Start here:
https://canmore.org.uk/site/search/result?SITECOUNTRY=0&view=map
and zoom in on Islay.  Because it is really meant for finding sites of historical interest the detail can be obscured by blue blobs marking the sites.  To get rid of them, just go to the menu inset into the top right corner of the map, click on "Canmore" and then on the "Search Results" box.

I hope this helps.  If you still have difficulty finding the location or have other Islay-related questions, do not hesitate to ask.

Regards

John



On 19/12/2020 20:58, Glynn Currie wrote:

Both my paternal grandparents were born on Islay. I have been told about the Island ever since I was very young. Grampa was John Currie, born in 1879 at Duich Lotts. His father was Donald Currie and his mother was Catherine McFadyen.
I would like to locate the farm where he was born and learn a bit about it. On an old map of Islay that I found on the internet I can see two places named Duich. One is located close to Bowmore, a little north and east. The other is located south and east of Bowmore, near the present day airport.
Would anyone know anything about these two locations which would allow me to learn which place was my grandfather's home?



Virus-free. www.avast.com


Re: Thomson/Thompson in the Borders of Scotland.

Anne Burgess
 

The union of the parish of Ashkirk to the parish of Selkirk took place in 1986 (see http://selkirkparish.church/about-us/congregation-and-parish/), so in in relation to baptisms and banns in the Church of Scotland registers in the middle of the 18th century it is completely irrelevant (I am surprised that the Borders FHS sees fit to say so, because they must be aware that mentioning a parish merger that took place in 1986 is not useful information for anyone looking for records over two centuries older). They were entirely separate parishes at that time. The implication of this is that if anyone mentioned in the registers of a particular parish lived in a different parish, the entry in the register will almost always say which parish they lived in.

Second, all the surviving registers of the Church of Scotland have been digitised and are available at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk. As part of the legislation that set up the statutory civil registration system the Church of Scotland was required by law to hand over all its surviving pre-1855 registers to the Registrar General for Scotland so that they would be preserved and safeguarded for the future. This is why all this information is now available in one place.

However other denominations were not compelled to hand over their registers. Many of these, however, have since found their way into various archives.

The registers of dissenting denominations do not necessarily always cover the same geographical areas as the Church of Scotland parish registers, because their congregations were often smaller and a single place of worship might draw its congregation from several Chuch of Scotland parishes. This means that the places people lived are lkely to be spread over a wider area than is the case in the Church of Scotland registers.

I am mystified by the one you saw on microfilm, however. I have tried many times to find the baptism of Euphans Thomson in both the IGI and the FS general records, without success, so I can't follow the trail from that event back to the source of the information. It isn't listed in the catalogue of the National Records of Scotland (https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/research/catalogues-and-indexes). There is a register of the Midholm (Midlem) United Original Secession Church, with the following description: "The congregation of Midholm (or Midlem) belonged to the Antiburgher branch of the Secession church, and was first established in 1742, the year in which Patrick Matthew the first minister of the charge was ordained. The church was built a number of years thereafter in 1746. The congregation sat within the Presbytery of Melrose. In 1820 the congregation became part of the United Original Secession Church, and remained as such until 1938 when the congregation was dissolved." However the catalogue listing (CH3/234) says that it covers only the period from 1845 to 1938). This register is now in the Scottish Borders Archive and Local History Centre in Hawick, but can be viewed as part of the 'Virtual Volumes' at the National Records of Scptland and in other local archives that has access to the VV system, but as it doesn't cover the 18th century it isn't much use in this instance.

I would be very interested indeed in finding out how the LDS got the register you saw on microfilm, where the original book is, and most of all why I can't find the baptism of Euphans Thomson (or her brother, but I concentrated on her because her name is much less common) in the online indexes on the FS web site.

Anne


Re: Duich Lotts

Glynn Currie
 

Thanks once again John.
Glynn



Sent from my Galaxy


-------- Original message --------
From: "John Kemplen via groups.io" <john.kemplen@...>
Date: 2020-12-20 02:09 (GMT-08:00)
To: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ScotGen] Duich Lotts

Hi Glynn

The link that Diane gave you is a good one which accurately describes Duich Lots as a group of agricultural holdings.  In English terminology it might be described as a hamlet, but it would not qualify as a village and certainly not as a town.  The agricultural holdings would not have been large enough to warrant the name "farm".  I think a collection of crofts might be the nearest thing to an accurate description.

The Zoopla reference is from a highly automated modern property database, and I am afraid that in this case it may be rather misleading in including the word "Duich".  The location marked on the Zoopla map is NOT Duich or Duich Lots.  It is in an area that Islay folk may call just "the Lotts".  I believe the unnamed road that it refers to is probably the road from Glenegedale on the A846 up to the B8016 between Glenegedale Lots and Glenegedalemoor Lots.  That road does indeed have several occupied houses on it, but the area is very unlikely to have ever been thought of as Duich or Duich Lots.  No buildings on Duich Lots are inhabited and they are all in a ruined state; they would not feature in a modern property database.

Regards

John


On 20/12/2020 06:43, Glynn Currie wrote:
Thanks Edie. That is interesting. Might have to break open the old piggy bank to rebuy the old farm!🤔



Sent from my Galaxy


-------- Original message --------
From: Edie Mc <eamca1944@...>
Date: 2020-12-19 22:13 (GMT-08:00)
Subject: Re: [ScotGen] Duich Lotts

There is also a house sale at Duich, Lotts. Islay, Scotland It is situated on an un named road with 15 houses on it.  Could be where your ancestor lived in one of  the fifteen houses.

Edie

 

https://www.zoopla.co.uk/property/duich/lotts/isle-of-islay/pa42-7dd/17937583

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Glynn Currie
Sent: Sunday, 20 December 2020 12:11
To: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io; John Kemplen
Subject: Re: [ScotGen] Duich Lotts

 

A question that has just occured to me after reading John's reply: Would Duich Lotts be a name that applied to a group of several farms developed near one another, or would it be a single farm worked by one family? Would it be termed a croft?

Glynn

 

 


--
EdieMc

Virus-free. www.avast.com


Re: Duich Lotts

John Kemplen
 

Hi Glynn

The link that Diane gave you is a good one which accurately describes Duich Lots as a group of agricultural holdings.  In English terminology it might be described as a hamlet, but it would not qualify as a village and certainly not as a town.  The agricultural holdings would not have been large enough to warrant the name "farm".  I think a collection of crofts might be the nearest thing to an accurate description.

The Zoopla reference is from a highly automated modern property database, and I am afraid that in this case it may be rather misleading in including the word "Duich".  The location marked on the Zoopla map is NOT Duich or Duich Lots.  It is in an area that Islay folk may call just "the Lotts".  I believe the unnamed road that it refers to is probably the road from Glenegedale on the A846 up to the B8016 between Glenegedale Lots and Glenegedalemoor Lots.  That road does indeed have several occupied houses on it, but the area is very unlikely to have ever been thought of as Duich or Duich Lots.  No buildings on Duich Lots are inhabited and they are all in a ruined state; they would not feature in a modern property database.

Regards

John


On 20/12/2020 06:43, Glynn Currie wrote:
Thanks Edie. That is interesting. Might have to break open the old piggy bank to rebuy the old farm!🤔



Sent from my Galaxy


-------- Original message --------
From: Edie Mc <eamca1944@...>
Date: 2020-12-19 22:13 (GMT-08:00)
Subject: Re: [ScotGen] Duich Lotts

There is also a house sale at Duich, Lotts. Islay, Scotland It is situated on an un named road with 15 houses on it.  Could be where your ancestor lived in one of  the fifteen houses.

Edie

 

https://www.zoopla.co.uk/property/duich/lotts/isle-of-islay/pa42-7dd/17937583

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Glynn Currie
Sent: Sunday, 20 December 2020 12:11
To: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io; John Kemplen
Subject: Re: [ScotGen] Duich Lotts

 

A question that has just occured to me after reading John's reply: Would Duich Lotts be a name that applied to a group of several farms developed near one another, or would it be a single farm worked by one family? Would it be termed a croft?

Glynn

 

 


--
EdieMc

Virus-free. www.avast.com


Re: Duich Lotts

Glynn Currie
 

Hi Edie,
Yes I believe it was a farm. Probably unlike any type of farm we know in Canada. It would have been a few acres, probably tilled by hand. My question is would it have been small farmer owned, or a larger land assemblage on which many farmer-operators would have worked for a portion of the crop while one land owner would have taken a portion of several farmers crops as a rent payment. In the latter case there could have been more than one house located close to one another.
The family tree which you have posted is certainly my family.
Glynn



Sent from my Galaxy


-------- Original message --------
From: Edie Mc <eamca1944@...>
Date: 2020-12-19 23:02 (GMT-08:00)
To: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io, John Kemplen <john.kemplen@...>
Subject: Re: [ScotGen] Duich Lotts

 

Hi Glynn,

It doesn’t sound like a farm yo me, more the name of a Town.  See this genealogy pedigree chart.

 

https://www.genealogy.com/ftm/r/o/w/Caroline-E-Rowe/GENE1-0006.html

 

Edie

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Glynn Currie
Sent: Sunday, 20 December 2020 12:11
To: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io; John Kemplen
Subject: Re: [ScotGen] Duich Lotts

 

A question that has just occured to me after reading John's reply: Would Duich Lotts be a name that applied to a group of several farms developed near one another, or would it be a single farm worked by one family? Would it be termed a croft?

Glynn

 

 

 

Sent from my Galaxy

 

 

-------- Original message --------

From: Glynn Currie <glynn.currie@...>

Date: 2020-12-19 16:38 (GMT-08:00)

To: John Kemplen <john.kemplen@...>, Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io

Subject: Re: [ScotGen] Duich Lotts

 

Thanks John.That is wonderful information very detailed and useful. I appreciate your help tremendously.

Glynn

 

 

 

Sent from my Galaxy

 

 

-------- Original message --------

From: John Kemplen <john.kemplen@...>

Date: 2020-12-19 15:30 (GMT-08:00)

To: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io, ", Glynn Currie" <glynn.currie@...>

Subject: Re: [ScotGen] Duich Lotts

 

Hello Glynn

The place east of Bowmore is, a believe, usually known as Dluich.  I have never seen anywhere else beginning with "Dl" and I have no idea how to say it, but there it is.

The place your people came from is south of Bowmore.  Duich is on the A846 ("the Low Road") where it crosses the Duich River, and Duich Lots (or Lotts) is about a mile east of there, just over half way to the B8016 ("the High Road") and a little way north of Loch Dhomhnull.  It is still named on good maps, but nobody lives there any more.  You can see some rather sad pictures of some of the abandoned cottages there if you follow this link:
http://www.hiddenglasgow.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=6649

There are a few other places called Lotts or Lots in that area - Glenegedale Lots, Glenegedalemoor Lots, Glenmachrie Lots - all on very peaty land between Bowmore and Port Ellen.  I do not know what the term means, but it seems to relate to outlying land associated with the place with the name without "Lotts" after it, often rather poor land at that.

I have found that the best website for finding very detailed modern maps of Scotland is Canmore.  Start here:
https://canmore.org.uk/site/search/result?SITECOUNTRY=0&view=map
and zoom in on Islay.  Because it is really meant for finding sites of historical interest the detail can be obscured by blue blobs marking the sites.  To get rid of them, just go to the menu inset into the top right corner of the map, click on "Canmore" and then on the "Search Results" box.

I hope this helps.  If you still have difficulty finding the location or have other Islay-related questions, do not hesitate to ask.

Regards

John

 

 

On 19/12/2020 20:58, Glynn Currie wrote:

 

Both my paternal grandparents were born on Islay. I have been told about the Island ever since I was very young. Grampa was John Currie, born in 1879 at Duich Lotts. His father was Donald Currie and his mother was Catherine McFadyen.

I would like to locate the farm where he was born and learn a bit about it. On an old map of Islay that I found on the internet I can see two places named Duich. One is located close to Bowmore, a little north and east. The other is located south and east of Bowmore, near the present day airport.

Would anyone know anything about these two locations which would allow me to learn which place was my grandfather's home?

 

 

Sent from my Galaxy

 

 

Virus-free. www.avast.com

 


--
EdieMc


Re: Duich Lotts

Glynn Currie
 

Thanks Josephine.

Yes this is my grandfather,John, and great grandfather, Donald. John did move to Saskatchewan in 1902 and took up a homestead. Later he became a grain buyer in three different communities. He married Flora McDiarmid in Saskatchewan in 1910. Flora was born on Shore Street In Bowmore in 1883, the daughter of Archibald McDiarmid and Agnes MacDonald.

I appreciate your help. Thanks.

Glynn

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Josephine Conray
Sent: December 19, 2020 8:51 PM
To: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ScotGen] Duich Lotts

 

Hi Glynn

 

I think Duich Lotts might be the name of the farm as all the census has the same address Duich Lots

 

Did the John below end up in Saskatchewan Canada.

 

 

This is below  1891 Census for Scotland.  John Father Donald  is a  Crofter and living at the same address with his parents Archibald & Marron 1851 the address is called Duich Muir, but from 1861 Duich Lots ,Ploughman, 1871 Duich Lots Farmer son, 1881 same address Farm servant  and 1901 same address  Crofter.

 

 

Name:

John Currie

Age:

11

Estimated Birth Year:

abt 1880

Relationship:

Son

Father's Name:

Donald Currie

Mother's Name:

Catherine Currie

Gender:

Male

Where born:

Kildalton, Argyll

Registration Number:

541

Registration District:

Kildalton and Oa

Civil Parish:

Kildalton and Oa

County:

Argyll

Address:

Duich Lots

Occupation:

Scholar

ED:

1

Household Schedule Number:

14

Line:

5

Roll:

CSSCT1891_172

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io [mailto:Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io] On Behalf Of Glynn Currie
Sent: Sunday, 20 December 2020 6:58 AM
To: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io
Subject: [ScotGen] Duich Lotts

 

 

Both my paternal grandparents were born on Islay. I have been told about the Island ever since I was very young. Grampa was John Currie, born in 1879 at Duich Lotts. His father was Donald Currie and his mother was Catherine McFadyen.

I would like to locate the farm where he was born and learn a bit about it. On an old map of Islay that I found on the internet I can see two places named Duich. One is located close to Bowmore, a little north and east. The other is located south and east of Bowmore, near the present day airport.

Would anyone know anything about these two locations which would allow me to learn which place was my grandfather's home?

 

 

Sent from my Galaxy

 

 


Re: Duich Lotts

Edie Mc
 

 

Hi Glynn,

It doesn’t sound like a farm yo me, more the name of a Town.  See this genealogy pedigree chart.

 

https://www.genealogy.com/ftm/r/o/w/Caroline-E-Rowe/GENE1-0006.html

 

Edie

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Glynn Currie
Sent: Sunday, 20 December 2020 12:11
To: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io; John Kemplen
Subject: Re: [ScotGen] Duich Lotts

 

A question that has just occured to me after reading John's reply: Would Duich Lotts be a name that applied to a group of several farms developed near one another, or would it be a single farm worked by one family? Would it be termed a croft?

Glynn

 

 

 

Sent from my Galaxy

 

 

-------- Original message --------

From: Glynn Currie <glynn.currie@...>

Date: 2020-12-19 16:38 (GMT-08:00)

To: John Kemplen <john.kemplen@...>, Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io

Subject: Re: [ScotGen] Duich Lotts

 

Thanks John.That is wonderful information very detailed and useful. I appreciate your help tremendously.

Glynn

 

 

 

Sent from my Galaxy

 

 

-------- Original message --------

From: John Kemplen <john.kemplen@...>

Date: 2020-12-19 15:30 (GMT-08:00)

To: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io, ", Glynn Currie" <glynn.currie@...>

Subject: Re: [ScotGen] Duich Lotts

 

Hello Glynn

The place east of Bowmore is, a believe, usually known as Dluich.  I have never seen anywhere else beginning with "Dl" and I have no idea how to say it, but there it is.

The place your people came from is south of Bowmore.  Duich is on the A846 ("the Low Road") where it crosses the Duich River, and Duich Lots (or Lotts) is about a mile east of there, just over half way to the B8016 ("the High Road") and a little way north of Loch Dhomhnull.  It is still named on good maps, but nobody lives there any more.  You can see some rather sad pictures of some of the abandoned cottages there if you follow this link:
http://www.hiddenglasgow.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=6649

There are a few other places called Lotts or Lots in that area - Glenegedale Lots, Glenegedalemoor Lots, Glenmachrie Lots - all on very peaty land between Bowmore and Port Ellen.  I do not know what the term means, but it seems to relate to outlying land associated with the place with the name without "Lotts" after it, often rather poor land at that.

I have found that the best website for finding very detailed modern maps of Scotland is Canmore.  Start here:
https://canmore.org.uk/site/search/result?SITECOUNTRY=0&view=map
and zoom in on Islay.  Because it is really meant for finding sites of historical interest the detail can be obscured by blue blobs marking the sites.  To get rid of them, just go to the menu inset into the top right corner of the map, click on "Canmore" and then on the "Search Results" box.

I hope this helps.  If you still have difficulty finding the location or have other Islay-related questions, do not hesitate to ask.

Regards

John

 

 

On 19/12/2020 20:58, Glynn Currie wrote:

 

Both my paternal grandparents were born on Islay. I have been told about the Island ever since I was very young. Grampa was John Currie, born in 1879 at Duich Lotts. His father was Donald Currie and his mother was Catherine McFadyen.

I would like to locate the farm where he was born and learn a bit about it. On an old map of Islay that I found on the internet I can see two places named Duich. One is located close to Bowmore, a little north and east. The other is located south and east of Bowmore, near the present day airport.

Would anyone know anything about these two locations which would allow me to learn which place was my grandfather's home?

 

 

Sent from my Galaxy

 

 

Virus-free. www.avast.com

 


--
EdieMc


Re: Duich Lotts

Glynn Currie
 

Thanks Edie. That is interesting. Might have to break open the old piggy bank to rebuy the old farm!🤔



Sent from my Galaxy


-------- Original message --------
From: Edie Mc <eamca1944@...>
Date: 2020-12-19 22:13 (GMT-08:00)
To: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io, John Kemplen <john.kemplen@...>
Subject: Re: [ScotGen] Duich Lotts

There is also a house sale at Duich, Lotts. Islay, Scotland It is situated on an un named road with 15 houses on it.  Could be where your ancestor lived in one of  the fifteen houses.

Edie

 

https://www.zoopla.co.uk/property/duich/lotts/isle-of-islay/pa42-7dd/17937583

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Glynn Currie
Sent: Sunday, 20 December 2020 12:11
To: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io; John Kemplen
Subject: Re: [ScotGen] Duich Lotts

 

A question that has just occured to me after reading John's reply: Would Duich Lotts be a name that applied to a group of several farms developed near one another, or would it be a single farm worked by one family? Would it be termed a croft?

Glynn

 

 


--
EdieMc


Re: Duich Lotts

Edie Mc
 

There is also a house sale at Duich, Lotts. Islay, Scotland It is situated on an un named road with 15 houses on it.  Could be where your ancestor lived in one of  the fifteen houses.

Edie

 

https://www.zoopla.co.uk/property/duich/lotts/isle-of-islay/pa42-7dd/17937583

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Glynn Currie
Sent: Sunday, 20 December 2020 12:11
To: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io; John Kemplen
Subject: Re: [ScotGen] Duich Lotts

 

A question that has just occured to me after reading John's reply: Would Duich Lotts be a name that applied to a group of several farms developed near one another, or would it be a single farm worked by one family? Would it be termed a croft?

Glynn

 

 


--
EdieMc


Re: Duich Lotts

Josephine Conray
 

Hi Glynn

 

I think Duich Lotts might be the name of the farm as all the census has the same address Duich Lots

 

Did the John below end up in Saskatchewan Canada.

 

 

This is below  1891 Census for Scotland.  John Father Donald  is a  Crofter and living at the same address with his parents Archibald & Marron 1851 the address is called Duich Muir, but from 1861 Duich Lots ,Ploughman, 1871 Duich Lots Farmer son, 1881 same address Farm servant  and 1901 same address  Crofter.

 

 

Name:

John Currie

Age:

11

Estimated Birth Year:

abt 1880

Relationship:

Son

Father's Name:

Donald Currie

Mother's Name:

Catherine Currie

Gender:

Male

Where born:

Kildalton, Argyll

Registration Number:

541

Registration District:

Kildalton and Oa

Civil Parish:

Kildalton and Oa

County:

Argyll

Address:

Duich Lots

Occupation:

Scholar

ED:

1

Household Schedule Number:

14

Line:

5

Roll:

CSSCT1891_172

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io [mailto:Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io] On Behalf Of Glynn Currie
Sent: Sunday, 20 December 2020 6:58 AM
To: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io
Subject: [ScotGen] Duich Lotts

 

 

Both my paternal grandparents were born on Islay. I have been told about the Island ever since I was very young. Grampa was John Currie, born in 1879 at Duich Lotts. His father was Donald Currie and his mother was Catherine McFadyen.

I would like to locate the farm where he was born and learn a bit about it. On an old map of Islay that I found on the internet I can see two places named Duich. One is located close to Bowmore, a little north and east. The other is located south and east of Bowmore, near the present day airport.

Would anyone know anything about these two locations which would allow me to learn which place was my grandfather's home?

 

 

Sent from my Galaxy

 


Re: Thomson/Thompson in the Borders of Scotland.

ROBERT F. RIDER
 

 That is interesting to know. It opens up more possibilities to also search in Selkirk. Thank you.


Re: Thomson/Thompson in the Borders of Scotland.

ROBERT F. RIDER
 

That's interesting. Thank you. I may be in luck by looking more there.


From: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io <Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io> on behalf of Anne Farrar <afarrar@...>
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 5:33:07 PM
To: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io <Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ScotGen] Thomson/Thompson in the Borders of Scotland.
 
The following is a direct quotation from the  Borders Family History webpage
 
“Selkirk Parish is situated in the County of the same name being bounded on the north by the Parishes of Caddonfoot and Galashiels, on the east by the Parishes of Bowden and Lilliesleaf and on the south-east by the Parish of Ashkirk all in Roxburghshire, on the south-west by the parish of Kirkhope and on the west by the Parish of Yarrow. Ashkirk is now linked with the ecclesiastical parish of Selkirk. “
 
From: ROBERT F. RIDER
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 7:35 PM
To: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io
Subject: [ScotGen] Thomson/Thompson
 

 

These are from the associated churches microfilm I ordered in and viewed and copied at my local LDS church.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

Midlem, August 15th.,1762
Robert Thomson and Agnes Elliott his wife in Midlestead in the parish of Selkirk hade a child baptized at Midlem on the Lords day before the congregation by all, Andrew Arnett Minister of the gospel in the associated congregation of Midlem. The child, name Euphans.(Euphemia as shown in the family bible of Robert Thomson)

May 15,1765 (Huntlie or Hunlie)

Robert Thomson and Agnes Elliott, his wife in Howdenhawgh in the parish of Ashkirk hade a child baptized at Hunlie before the congregation by minister Andrew Arnott in the associate congregation of Midlem. The childs name Andrew.

Andrews baptism in the parish of Ashkirk? This town is hard to make out but I believe it to be Ashkirk. There are no other names mentioned but the above.


Re: Duich Lotts

Glynn Currie
 

Diane,
I have started looking through the pages on the Scottish Places link you provided. It is going to take some time to see it properly, but I am genuinely looking forward to a better look. It has me quite excited.
Glynn



Sent from my Galaxy


-------- Original message --------
From: Glynn Currie <glynn.currie@...>
Date: 2020-12-19 16:54 (GMT-08:00)
To: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ScotGen] Duich Lotts

Thanks Diane. I appreciate your help.
Glynn



Sent from my Galaxy


-------- Original message --------
From: "M. Diane Rogers" <diane_rogers@...>
Date: 2020-12-19 15:55 (GMT-08:00)
To: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ScotGen] Duich Lotts

Duich lots, Islay - description from 'Scottis Places' here:
https://www.scottish-places.info/towns/townfirst14706.html

Diane
M Diane Rogers

----- Original Message -----

Both my paternal grandparents were born on Islay.
        I have been told about the Island ever since I was very young.
        Grampa was John Currie, born in 1879...Snipped






Re: DNA

Josephine Conray
 

Hello Bret.

Would you know? Should a sister match with her 5 brothers, would she match to both her Father and Mother or just one of them. What does it mean when the sister does not match.

Cheers
Josephine
Qld Aust.

-----Original Message-----
From: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io [mailto:Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bret Busby
Sent: Saturday, 19 December 2020 10:33 PM
To: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ScotGen] DNA

On 19/12/20 6:12 pm, Bob Elder via groups.io wrote:
*If my eldest sister was to her DNA done would it be any different than
mine, or would she have the same markers as myself just a thought as
there is no other male line in the family.*

**

*Thank Bob*

Hello, Bob.

I am the Project Administrator for the Busby name project at
familytreedna.com .

I am no expert, but, the following may be helpful.

At familytreedna.com, for males, they have the Y-DNA test series, and
the Family Finder test, and, for females, they have the mtDNA test and
the Family Finder test. These are not the only genealogical DNA tests
that they offer, but, I believe that they are the most useful and helpful

The Y-DNA test, tests for matches, along the patrilineal line (father,
father's father, father's father's father, etc, etc, etc.

The Y-DNA test is applicable to the Y chromosome, and, males have
(mostly) the XY chromosome combination (apparently, XXY and XYY
chromosome combinations can exist, but, this is not the place for going
into that part of biology).

The mtDNA test traces the X chromosome , and females have (mostly) the
XX chromosome combination (apparently, the XXX chromosome combination,
also exists, but, once again, this is not the place for going into that
part of biology)

The mtDNA test, tests for matches along the matrilineal line (mother,
mother's mother, mother's mother's mother, etc, etc, etc).

The Family Finder test is an autosomal test, that tests for possible
ancestral relationships of both genders, from what I understand, going
back to five generations, and, returns results indicating possible
relationships ("This match may be a third to fifth cousin" kind of
matches) for both sexes.

What I recommend to people, is that, males, undergo the 37 marker Y-DNA
test and the Family Finder test, and, females, undergo the Family Finder
test, and, doing this, through a name project, and, once the test
results are returned, joining as many applicable name and geographic
projects, as can be found (so as to aid in finding possible matches
within those projects), the same as I recommend for joining genealogical
mailing lists.

Regarding geographic genealogical DNA projects, a number exist, for
Scotland, and for the UK, at familytreedna.com . These can be useful
both for finding possible relatives, and, for tracing ancestral movements.

So, I recommend that anyone who is researching genealogy relating to
Scotland, and, who has had familytreedna.com genealogy DNA testing,
done, should join the Scotland geographical DNA projects, in addition to
name projects, to make the research more comprehensive.

Also, out of interest, familytreedna.com have discounted offers on their
genealogical DNA tests, at present, until 27 December.

I hope that this information is helpful.

--
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..............


Re: Duich Lotts

Glynn Currie
 

A question that has just occured to me after reading John's reply: Would Duich Lotts be a name that applied to a group of several farms developed near one another, or would it be a single farm worked by one family? Would it be termed a croft?
Glynn



Sent from my Galaxy


-------- Original message --------
From: Glynn Currie <glynn.currie@...>
Date: 2020-12-19 16:38 (GMT-08:00)
To: John Kemplen <john.kemplen@...>, Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ScotGen] Duich Lotts

Thanks John.That is wonderful information very detailed and useful. I appreciate your help tremendously.
Glynn



Sent from my Galaxy


-------- Original message --------
From: John Kemplen <john.kemplen@...>
Date: 2020-12-19 15:30 (GMT-08:00)
To: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io, ", Glynn Currie" <glynn.currie@...>
Subject: Re: [ScotGen] Duich Lotts

Hello Glynn

The place east of Bowmore is, a believe, usually known as Dluich.  I have never seen anywhere else beginning with "Dl" and I have no idea how to say it, but there it is.

The place your people came from is south of Bowmore.  Duich is on the A846 ("the Low Road") where it crosses the Duich River, and Duich Lots (or Lotts) is about a mile east of there, just over half way to the B8016 ("the High Road") and a little way north of Loch Dhomhnull.  It is still named on good maps, but nobody lives there any more.  You can see some rather sad pictures of some of the abandoned cottages there if you follow this link:
http://www.hiddenglasgow.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=6649

There are a few other places called Lotts or Lots in that area - Glenegedale Lots, Glenegedalemoor Lots, Glenmachrie Lots - all on very peaty land between Bowmore and Port Ellen.  I do not know what the term means, but it seems to relate to outlying land associated with the place with the name without "Lotts" after it, often rather poor land at that.

I have found that the best website for finding very detailed modern maps of Scotland is Canmore.  Start here:
https://canmore.org.uk/site/search/result?SITECOUNTRY=0&view=map
and zoom in on Islay.  Because it is really meant for finding sites of historical interest the detail can be obscured by blue blobs marking the sites.  To get rid of them, just go to the menu inset into the top right corner of the map, click on "Canmore" and then on the "Search Results" box.

I hope this helps.  If you still have difficulty finding the location or have other Islay-related questions, do not hesitate to ask.

Regards

John



On 19/12/2020 20:58, Glynn Currie wrote:

Both my paternal grandparents were born on Islay. I have been told about the Island ever since I was very young. Grampa was John Currie, born in 1879 at Duich Lotts. His father was Donald Currie and his mother was Catherine McFadyen.
I would like to locate the farm where he was born and learn a bit about it. On an old map of Islay that I found on the internet I can see two places named Duich. One is located close to Bowmore, a little north and east. The other is located south and east of Bowmore, near the present day airport.
Would anyone know anything about these two locations which would allow me to learn which place was my grandfather's home?


Sent from my Galaxy


Virus-free. www.avast.com


Re: Duich Lotts

Glynn Currie
 

Thanks Diane. I appreciate your help.
Glynn



Sent from my Galaxy


-------- Original message --------
From: "M. Diane Rogers" <diane_rogers@...>
Date: 2020-12-19 15:55 (GMT-08:00)
To: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ScotGen] Duich Lotts

Duich lots, Islay - description from 'Scottis Places' here:
https://www.scottish-places.info/towns/townfirst14706.html

Diane
M Diane Rogers

----- Original Message -----

Both my paternal grandparents were born on Islay.
        I have been told about the Island ever since I was very young.
        Grampa was John Currie, born in 1879...Snipped





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