Ann,

Normally I would agree with you but in the case of my wife's grandfather and great-grandmother, the information about parentage on their marriage records (two each) was not correct. In fact, both told fibs all the way through their lives, on marriage records, censuses, military service records, etc. The only accurate information about great-gramma's parentage was on her death information which was given by a nephew, a son of one of her sisters. Both of her sisters, by the way, did offer the correct information about their parents on their own marriage records.

Grandpa, perhaps because he was illegitimate, rarely gave the correct information about his parentage. Information about his parents on his death record, unfortunately, was wrong as well. I think this was because the informant, my wife's mother, was never told the entire truth about her father's family. She took the erroneous information from her father's marriage record.

The lesson here is never completely trust any record, but look for many different sources in order to determine what might be the real truth about relationships.

Wayne Shepheard

On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 4:05 AM Anne Burgess via groups.io <anne.genlists=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:

I think that is wrong information by her widower. When there is a conflict between information on a marriage and information on the death certificate, I tend to believe the marriage because in that case the person is alive to provide the information, whereas with a death certificate the information is only as good as what the informant thinks he knows.

Sorry for trying to help I will keep out of it.





-----Original Message-----
From: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io [mailto:Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io] On Behalf Of Anne Burgess via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, 7 July 2020 7:15 PM
To: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ScotGen] Searching for John McLeod

Indeed, all that information is readily available, But it is all transcriptions and index listings.

"Working on the marriage date she should have been born about 1841". Well, too bad, but making wild guesses like that is how errors get into online trees. I even warned about this particular assumption in a post two days ago on this very thread. I have only seen a small proportion of all the marriage certificates in the Scottish records - just under 5,000 for my own family and maybe another couple of thousand for other people's trees - and the number of women who married at age 21 (let alone younger) is very low. Most were in their mid to late 20s at marriage.

Also, as I have already said upthread, I bought a copy of the marriage certificate of David Winchester and Rebeccia Ross. It says there, in clearly handwritten black and white, that David was 25 and Rebecca was 35. Yes, thirty-five years old. Not 21. This is consistent with her age in the assorted censuses and with her death aged 38.

Those extracts from assorted indexes are very useful indeed far saving time hunting down the original records. You can then go to a Family History Centre, arrange to rent one of the FHL films mentioned about, and then go back, view the films in the FHC, and make notes from it. Or you can go online to www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk and download digital images of the certificates on the spot, for less than the cost of a cup of coffee or a pint of beer each.

There is ***NO*** substitute for looking at the original documents.

I think that is wrong information by her widower. When there is a conflict between information on a marriage and information on the death certificate, I tend to believe the marriage because in that case the person is alive to provide the information, whereas with a death certificate the information is only as good as what the informant thinks he knows.

I think that is wrong information by her widower. When there is a conflict between information on a marriage and information on the death certificate, I tend to believe the marriage because in that case the person is alive to provide the information, whereas with a death certificate the information is only as good as what the informant thinks he knows.

Be very careful not to make assumptions about Christian Munro and her husband. In the 1841 census adults' ages were rounded down to the nearest 5 years. The census was taken on 7 June 1841, so if Christian's stated age is accurate she would have been born between 8 June 1771 and 7 June 1776. Also, she said in the 1841 that she was not born in Moray. In 1851 Donald and Christian jr say they were born in Nigg, Ross and Cromarty and Rebecca was born in Nairn, and in 1861 both Christian jr and Rebecca say Nairn. There was quite a bit of migration from the northern counties, and a family starting out in Ross-shire, moving to Nairn and then moving again to Moray wouldn't be unusual.

Do we know what happened to Rebecca's siblings? She and her sister were both described in the 1861 census as 'retired farmer' (and so was the 7-year-old John!). Her brother could be the Donald Ross, aged 49, who died in Dyke in 1857.  Christina Ross, mother's maiden surname Munro, died in Forres in 1861, aged 48. Their death certificates should settle that.

You also said, "On the birth record of John McLeod, in 1853, it says his mother Rebecca, was from Snab and his father was from Dalvey.  And what does it mean when there is a blank for where he was baptised." It means that the clerk probably wrote it down after the event, and didn't have the exact date to hand, and then forgot to fill it in later.

There are several places called Dalvey, but the nearest one to Snab is this one https://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NJ0058 so it would be reasonable to suppose that John's father Donald McLeod lived at this Dalvey, in the same parish. This map shows both Snab of Moy and Dalvey House https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15&lat=57.61561&lon=-3.68723&layers=5&b=1 (you may need to zoom in a bit). But farm workers, especially young unmarried ones, did tend to move around quite a lot, so he may not have been there on the day of the 1851 census, let alone the 1861.

How good that is!!  From Canada I wish I could book a person to look for what I want and need.  The cost of hiring a genealogist is over the moon for a few sheets of paper.  Scotland’s People should hire someone to find what overseas folks need and want.  I was there many years ago and all I can say about the folks at Princess Street is that they were so VERY kind and considerate....AND most helpful to someone who hadn’t been before and likely wouldn’t be again.  God Bless them all...GOOD folks all of them.  Goldie

 

From: Iain MacIntosh

Sent: Sunday, July 5, 2020 12:01 PM

To: Scots@scotland-genealogy.groups.io

Subject: Re: [ScotGen] Searching for John McLeod

 

Progress is a great thing.  You can book a terminal online down to th room and seat you prefer. You pay in advanceAnd go straight to your booked place. No queues ... unless you arrive early!

 

Iain

 

 

 

 

Iain

 

 

 

On 5 Jul 2020, at 17:12, Claude Hanson <claudehanson@...> wrote:



This computer is so darned sensitive!  I have just sent two messages as I was beginning to write them.  I have learned to use Scotland's People well enough to use up my first purchase of points.  I have been doing genealogy for almost 41 years and I learned years ago to only record on my trees the hard data, not information from others, although in many cases it can be validated by finding the original recording (I call that "hard" data) so the information does serve as clues.

     On the birth record of John McLeod, in 1853, it says his mother Rebecca, was from Snab and his father was from Dalvey.  And what does it mean when there is a blank for where he was baptised.  I have looked a bit to find the father of John McLeod  and the only Donald McLeod I can find was 49 years old in 1851.  (and, I was so exhausted last night (4th of July), I don't even remember where  it saw that).

      When I'm using Scotland's People, I keep thinking it's home must be the place we visited 24 years ago.  My wife's cousin told us to be sure to get there early because there would be a long que!  None of us had ever heard of that phrase before and had no idea what she meant.  When we got there a long line was forming.... so we discovered that que in Scotland is the same as "waiting line" in Idaho!

     It will be nice when I can again spend every Tuesday morning at our LDS family history center.  It's been closed since late February because of the wicked virus!!!!

     Anne, I finally found the marriage for Rebecca Ross and the  birth record for John McLeod.  I was looking at in  a cite that limited the church records for marriages and I was looking in an area that only had births since 1855.  I'm learning.

Claude

Thanks for all the help.  I am finally learning how to use Scotland's People and have used up my first purchase of point

On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 5:39 AM Allan MacBain <testerscot@...> wrote:

I can only reiterate, and _emphasise_ what Anne has said... be a Berean - as Paul of Tarsus enjoined all Christians to be - "These (Berea) were more noble than those in Thessalonica in that they received the word with all readiness of mind and searched the scriptures daily whether those things were so."

Take your sources... from *wherever* they may be... then check, and _double-check_ them for accuracy. :-)

Allan MacBain MBCS

Associate Genealogist (UK & Europe), Clan MacBean Association.

On Sun, 5 Jul 2020 at 09:34, Anne Burgess via groups.io <anne.genlists=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:

I use the IGI on FamilySearch a lot, but usually only the 'Community indexed' section - I do not trust the 'Community contributed' section at all.

They also had a nasty habit of assuming that a man was aged 25 when he married, and a woman was 21, and 'calculating' a date of birth from this. They also assumed that someone was 'of' the place where they got married, oblivious to the fact that in Scotland, someone who is 'of xxx' is the landowner of xxx, not just someone who happens to have lived there.

I think the IGI is a wonderful tool, for all its many drawbacks (not 100% coverage of available records, curious spellings, assumptions, out of date) and sometimes one of the trees there contains a useful hint or two to be followed up. But FamilySearch mostly has just indexes and transcriptions, not original documents, and it is always essential to check the originals. Even then, be careful - witness the incorrect name of David Winchester's father on his first marriage certificate.

I repeat, with emphasis: never, ever trust anything you find online unless it's an image of an original documents, and even then be wary.

Do not, for instance, take as gospel anything I have said. Go and get the original documents and check for yourself.

I can only reiterate, and _emphasise_ what Anne has said... be a Berean - as Paul of Tarsus enjoined all Christians to be - "These (Berea) were more noble than those in Thessalonica in that they received the word with all readiness of mind and searched the scriptures daily whether those things were so."

Take your sources... from *wherever* they may be... then check, and _double-check_ them for accuracy. :-)

Allan MacBain MBCS

Associate Genealogist (UK & Europe), Clan MacBean Association.

On Sun, 5 Jul 2020 at 09:34, Anne Burgess via groups.io <anne.genlists=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:

I use the IGI on FamilySearch a lot, but usually only the 'Community indexed' section - I do not trust the 'Community contributed' section at all.

They also had a nasty habit of assuming that a man was aged 25 when he married, and a woman was 21, and 'calculating' a date of birth from this. They also assumed that someone was 'of' the place where they got married, oblivious to the fact that in Scotland, someone who is 'of xxx' is the landowner of xxx, not just someone who happens to have lived there.

I think the IGI is a wonderful tool, for all its many drawbacks (not 100% coverage of available records, curious spellings, assumptions, out of date) and sometimes one of the trees there contains a useful hint or two to be followed up. But FamilySearch mostly has just indexes and transcriptions, not original documents, and it is always essential to check the originals. Even then, be careful - witness the incorrect name of David Winchester's father on his first marriage certificate.

I repeat, with emphasis: never, ever trust anything you find online unless it's an image of an original documents, and even then be wary.

Do not, for instance, take as gospel anything I have said. Go and get the original documents and check for yourself.

I use the IGI on FamilySearch a lot, but usually only the 'Community indexed' section - I do not trust the 'Community contributed' section at all.

They also had a nasty habit of assuming that a man was aged 25 when he married, and a woman was 21, and 'calculating' a date of birth from this. They also assumed that someone was 'of' the place where they got married, oblivious to the fact that in Scotland, someone who is 'of xxx' is the landowner of xxx, not just someone who happens to have lived there.

I think the IGI is a wonderful tool, for all its many drawbacks (not 100% coverage of available records, curious spellings, assumptions, out of date) and sometimes one of the trees there contains a useful hint or two to be followed up. But FamilySearch mostly has just indexes and transcriptions, not original documents, and it is always essential to check the originals. Even then, be careful - witness the incorrect name of David Winchester's father on his first marriage certificate.

I repeat, with emphasis: never, ever trust anything you find online unless it's an image of an original documents, and even then be wary.

Do not, for instance, take as gospel anything I have said. Go and get the original documents and check for yourself.

[Edited Message Follows]

It is possible that the John McLeod born in Forgue is the father of Alexander McLeod.

However he shows up as a coachman in every census, and Alexander's father said he was a blacksmith.

I think you still need to follow up the one who was in Ladysbridge Hospital in 1881 and find out whether he was a blacksmith. If he was, then he is more likely to be your John McLeod than the one born in Forgue.

By all means use FamilySearch for pointers. But do not trust anything you find online unless it is an image of an original records. Even then, be wary.