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Re: Searching for John McLeod
Allan MacBain
I can only reiterate, and _emphasise_ what Anne has said... be a Berean - as Paul of Tarsus enjoined all Christians to be - "These (Berea) were more noble than those in Thessalonica in that they received the word with all readiness of mind and searched the scriptures daily whether those things were so." Take your sources... from *wherever* they may be... then check, and _double-check_ them for accuracy. :-) Allan MacBain MBCS Associate Genealogist (UK & Europe), Clan MacBean Association.
On Sun, 5 Jul 2020 at 09:34, Anne Burgess via groups.io <anne.genlists=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote: I use the IGI on FamilySearch a lot, but usually only the 'Community indexed' section - I do not trust the 'Community contributed' section at all.
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Re: Searching for John McLeod
I use the IGI on FamilySearch a lot, but usually only the 'Community indexed' section - I do not trust the 'Community contributed' section at all.
They also had a nasty habit of assuming that a man was aged 25 when he married, and a woman was 21, and 'calculating' a date of birth from this. They also assumed that someone was 'of' the place where they got married, oblivious to the fact that in Scotland, someone who is 'of xxx' is the landowner of xxx, not just someone who happens to have lived there. I think the IGI is a wonderful tool, for all its many drawbacks (not 100% coverage of available records, curious spellings, assumptions, out of date) and sometimes one of the trees there contains a useful hint or two to be followed up. But FamilySearch mostly has just indexes and transcriptions, not original documents, and it is always essential to check the originals. Even then, be careful - witness the incorrect name of David Winchester's father on his first marriage certificate. I repeat, with emphasis: never, ever trust anything you find online unless it's an image of an original documents, and even then be wary. Do not, for instance, take as gospel anything I have said. Go and get the original documents and check for yourself.
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Re: Searching for John McLeod
I gave you the web site address for Grampian Health Board Archives. You will not find details of patients in Ladysbridge Hospital (or any other hospital) online - you need to e-mail them and ask what they can tell you about John McLeod..
No idea why you can't find that marriage. If you just search the statutory marriages on SP for Winchester and 1862 it will come up. However I bought a copy of it as you are having problems and if confirms that Rebecca Ross (indexed as Rebeccia and I can see why) was the daughter of John Ross, farmer, and Christina Ross, maiden surname Munro, both deceased. David's parents were given as Alexander Winchester and Leslie McPherson, but his parents were actually *James* Winchester and Leslie McPherson, and he was born in Edinkillie (the next parish south-west of Forres) on 8 December 1839. Rebecca Winchester died in Forres in 1864, aged 38. For some reason her death is not indexed under her maiden name as it should be, which is why I couldn't find it before. When you look at the original it may become clear. David then married Margaret Brander Grant in 1865. The 12-year-old David in the 1871 census is his illegitimate son by Jessie Smith. This child was born in Kinloss (the next parish to the north-west of Forres) on 29 December 1858. Anne
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Re: Searching for John McLeod
On Sat, Jul 4, 2020 at 1:10 AM Anne Burgess via groups.io <anne.genlists=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote: [Edited Message Follows] I do use the FamilySearch Family Tree for a couple of reasons -- first, it is the most widely-used free site, and many people trust it, therefor I try to make the sourcing and information for my family members the best possible. Second, if you use the tree, their hints are now good enough and other tools powerful enough to easily add links between sources and family members when appropriate. As Anne says, just because a person is named in some document /record and it's the same name as your person of interest -- does not mean that the two are linked! It's alway necessary to analyze the person of interest's life, *and* what is in the record, to see if they are connected. Fortunately, if you mistakenly (or someone else mistakenly) attached records to the wrong person, they can be *un*-attached. And if there are multiple profiles for the same person, they can (with care) be merged. Thank you for doing that work. It makes the tree better for everyone. That said, the documents and other records in FamilySearch do not need to be attached to anyone in a tree on FamilySearch. They can be downloaded to your own machine and used in your own private tree, and IMO should be! Images and information can also be uploaded to WikiTree, Ancestry.com, MyHeritage, GeneaNet, Geni, etc and linked up to trees there. Don't forget the 80% of record images that are not indexed! They are trying to make it easier to find what you need, but there will need to be some work done on your part to find those wills, deeds, arrest records, probate files, etc. We no longer need to go to Family History Centers or libraries and crank microfilm. We can do it in our bunny slippers right in our own homes. Valorie
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Re: Searching for John McLeod
Claude Hanson
Anne: Thanks for continuing to try to help me. I did learn how to use the Scotland's People cite, paid a fee and purchased a couple censuses. I tried for several hours to get the marriage of Rebeccia Ross and David Winchester you mentioned on 13, June 1862 in Forres. I tried and tried and tried... and nothing. Finally went to a 2871 census for David Winchester and found he was married to someone else and had a family. I also spent a quite a bit of effort in the Ladybridge Hospital, but could never find a place where I could ask a question. Honestly, my brain seems to have stopped functioning and my ignorance is disgusting!!! Let me know if you can find that marriage....and also let me know how I should get in contact with Ladybridge hospital. Thanks! Claude 1
On Sat, Jul 4, 2020 at 2:10 AM Anne Burgess via groups.io <anne.genlists=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote: [Edited Message Follows]
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Re: Searching for John McLeod
It is possible that the John McLeod born in Forgue is the father of Alexander McLeod.
However he shows up as a coachman in every census, and Alexander's father said he was a blacksmith. I think you still need to follow up the one who was in Ladysbridge Hospital in 1881 and find out whether he was a blacksmith. If he was, then he is more likely to be your John McLeod than the one born in Forgue. By all means use FamilySearch for pointers. But do not trust anything you find online unless it is an image of an original records. Even then, be wary.
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Re: Searching for John McLeod
Claude Hanson
Thanks, Valorie
On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 7:48 PM Valorie Zimmerman <valorie.zimmerman@...> wrote:
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Re: Searching for John McLeod
Hi Claude, On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 1:58 PM Claude Hanson <claudehanson@...> wrote:
I can't seem to reply to your message because it is an image rather than text! I usually snip the Groups.io message footer in replies, but leave it so that you see that there are links above allowing you to respond online as well as just clicking reply in your email client or webmail. Wise to not add people or data to your tree until verified. My advice about Scotland's People: search the sites you have access to, such as https://FamilySearch.org first. Often you can get dates and places at least which will make your searches of https://scotlandspeople.gov.uk/ more efficient. Step one for me is always creating a detailed timeline for the Person of Interest, including citations. I find FamilySearch invaluable if only for the excellent citations that are usually ready-to-use with no editing needed. Hope this helps, Valorie _,_
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Re: Looking for Duncan Campbell...
Lynne Roberts
Yep - but now that I've gotten so many suggestions from this group I'm re-looking - hoping I've missed something. A VERY BIG THANK YOU TO YOU ALL FOR ALL YOUR RESPONSES - I'M GOING OVER EVERYTHING I'VE COLLECTED OVER THE YEARS INCLUDING ALL OF MY FILES IN HOPE OF FINDING A NUGGET THAT WILL OPEN THE DOOR. THANKS SO MUCH - THIS IS A WONDERFUL RESOURCE!!
On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 1:58 PM <jemooney@...> wrote:
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Re: Looking for Duncan Campbell...
jemooney@...
A couple ideas..... DNA evidence. I’m still leaning more and more about how to interpret DNA evidence however in this case X DNA and YDNA lines maybe helpful for you. There’s a lot of very helpful webinars on Legacy that help with sorting out and interrupting the DNA evidence. I do think, however that DNA has to be combined with solid traditional genealogical research. DNA evidence may provide new clues for where to search further good luck!
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Re: 40 years looking for parents of John McLeod, b. 1854 or 1855 in Dyke, Elginshire
Chas Houston <cmcfhouston@...>
Hi Claude,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Phew! I think thanks to Anne Burgess kindly looking up Certificates for you on scotlandspeople you finally have it all. You say Alexander McLeod was later living with the family of John and Helen's at Alves, then surely this is his family. Tree as below. Regards Charles ========== First Generation 1. James MCLEOD was born in 1820 in Ferintosh, Ross & Cromarty. In Apr 1861 he was a Coachman to private family in Haddo, Forgue, Aberdeen. In Apr 1881 he was a Horse Hirer in 16 Square, Huntly. Ann MCDONALD was born in 1818 in Kilmauch, Inverness Re 1861 Census. He died in 1879 at the age of 61 in Inverkeithny, Banff. James MCLEOD and Ann MCDONALD had the following children: 2 i. William MCLEOD was born in 1850 in Ferintosh, Ross & Cromarty. +3 ii. Evan MCLEOD, born 1852, Inverkeithny, Banff; married Mary FRASER, 1881, Edinkillie, Moray, Scotland; died 1912, Cathcart, Lanark, Scotland. +4 iii. John MCLEOD, born 1854, Forgue, Aberdeen, Scotland; married Helen MCINTOSH, 21 Jun 1890, Parkhead, Ballindalloch, Inveravon, Banff, Scotland; died 29 Jun 1929, Ardgye farmhouse, Alves, Moray, Scotland. +5 iv. Georgina Forbes MCLEOD, born 1856, Forgue, Aberdeen, Scotland; married Francis SCOTT, 1900, Blackfriars ,Glasgow; died 1940, Provan, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland. 6 v. James Paul MCLEOD was born in 1858 in Forgue, Aberdeen, Scotland. In Apr 1881 he was a Licenced grocer in boardings with brother Evan in Forteaths Park, Elgin. He died in 1883 at the age of 25 in Elgin, Elgin, Scotland. Second Generation 3. Evan MCLEOD (James-1) was born in 1852 in Inverkeithny, Banff. In Apr 1881 he was a Licenced Grocer boading with brother James in Forteaths Park, Elgin. He died in 1912 at the age of 60 in Cathcart, Lanark, Scotland. Evan MCLEOD and Mary FRASER were married in 1881 in Edinkillie, Moray, Scotland. Mary FRASER was born in 1856 in Edinkillie, Moray, Scotland. She died in 1911 at the age of 55 in Dingwall, Inverness, Scotland. 4. John MCLEOD (James-1) was born in 1854 in Forgue, Aberdeen, Scotland. In Apr 1881 he was a Coachman in Geddes House, Nairn. In 1891 he was a Coachman in Elgin, Elgin, Scotland. In 1929 John was a Gardener. He died on 29 Jun 1929 at the age of 75 in Ardgye farmhouse, Alves, Moray, Scotland. Agnes McIntosh ROSS, daughter of John ROSS and Elizabeth MCKILLICAN, was born in 1856 in Rafford, by Forres, Moray, Scotland. She died in 1939 at the age of 83 in Nairn, Nairn, Scotland. John MCLEOD and Agnes McIntosh ROSS had the following child: 7 i. Alexander MCLEOD was born in 1879 in Woodside Marcassie, Rafford, Moray. Fact: in 1879 in Birth reg surname as ROSS. John MCLEOD and Helen MCINTOSH were married on 21 Jun 1890 in Parkhead, Ballindalloch, Inveravon, Banff, Scotland. Helen MCINTOSH, daughter of James MCINTOSH and Emelia MCQUEEN, was born on 27 Mar 1865 in Inveravon, Banff, Scotland. She died on 9 Jan 1953 at the age of 87 in Alves, Moray, Scotland. John MCLEOD and Helen MCINTOSH had the following children: +8 i. Sarah Ann MCLEOD, born 1890, Inveravon, Banff, Scotland; married William WATT, 1929, St Giles Parish, Edinburgh, Midlothian; died 1967, Haymarket, Edinburgh, Scotland. 9 ii. Georgina Marjory MCLEOD was born in 1892 in Dyke, Moray, Scotland. She died on 6 Aug 1928 at the age of 36 in Reg at George Square, Edinburgh, Scotland. 10 iii. Isabella MCLEOD was born in 1895 in Alves, Moray, Scotland. She died in 1895 at the age of 0 in Alves, Moray, Scotland. 11 iv. John MCLEOD was born in 1897 in Alves, Moray, Scotland. He died in 1897 at the age of 0 in Alves, Elgin, Scotland. +12 v. Helen McIntosh MCLEOD, born 1900, Alves, Moray, Scotland; married Gerard Dawson MILNE, 1939, Elgin, Elgin, Scotland. 13 vi. James MCLEOD was born in Mar 1902 in Alves, Moray, Scotland. He died in Mar 1902 at the age of 0 in Alves, Moray, Scotland. +14 vii. Jessie Amelia "Jenny" MCLEOD, born 1903, Alves, Moray, Scotland; married Richard Herbert PACEY, 1938, Kinloss, Moray, Scotland; died 21 Sep 1951, Reg at George Sq., Edinburgh, Midlothian. +15 viii. Evan MCLEOD, born 1906, Alves, Moray, Scotland; married Muriel Isabel PATERSON, 1939, Elgin, Elgin, Scotland; died 1979, Elgin, Elgin, Scotland. 16 ix. Rosie Mackessac MCLEOD was born in 1908 in Alves, Moray, Scotland. She died in 1988 at the age of 80 in Elgin, Elgin, Scotland. 5. Georgina Forbes MCLEOD (James-1) was born in 1856 in Forgue, Aberdeen, Scotland. She died in 1940 at the age of 84 in Provan, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland. Georgina Forbes MCLEOD and Francis SCOTT were married in 1900 in Blackfriars ,Glasgow. Francis SCOTT was born about 1852. Third Generation 8. Sarah Ann MCLEOD (John-2, James-1) was born in 1890 in Inveravon, Banff, Scotland. She died in 1967 at the age of 77 in Haymarket, Edinburgh, Scotland. Sarah Ann MCLEOD and William WATT were married in 1929 in St Giles Parish, Edinburgh, Midlothian. William WATT was born about 1886. 12. Helen McIntosh MCLEOD (John-2, James-1) was born in 1900 in Alves, Moray, Scotland. Helen McIntosh MCLEOD and Gerard Dawson MILNE were married in 1939 in Elgin, Elgin, Scotland. Gerard Dawson MILNE, son of James Mitchell MILNE and Annie Gerrard DAWSON, was born in 1892. He died on 28 Sep 1951 at the age of 59 in Dr Grays Hospital, Elgin. 14. Jessie Amelia "Jenny" MCLEOD (John-2, James-1) was born in 1903 in Alves, Moray, Scotland. She died on 21 Sep 1951 at the age of 48 in Reg at George Sq., Edinburgh, Midlothian. Jessie Amelia "Jenny" MCLEOD and Richard Herbert PACEY were married in 1938 in Kinloss, Moray, Scotland. Richard Herbert PACEY was born in 1908. He died in 1962 at the age of 54 in Inverness, Inverness, Scotland. 15. Evan MCLEOD (John-2, James-1) was born in 1906 in Alves, Moray, Scotland. He died in 1979 at the age of 73 in Elgin, Elgin, Scotland. Evan MCLEOD and Muriel Isabel PATERSON were married in 1939 in Elgin, Elgin, Scotland. Muriel Isabel PATERSON was born in 1913. She died in 2003 at the age of 90 in Elgin, Elgin, Scotland.
On 03-Jul-20 10:13 AM, Anne Burgess via groups.io wrote:
Unfortunately facts are chiels that winna ding.
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Searching for John McLeod
Claude Hanson <claudehanson@...>
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Re: 40 years looking for parents of John McLeod, b. 1854 or 1855 in Dyke, Elginshire
Cas Houston <cmcfhouston@...>
Well done! The tree was just a possible, I advised Claude to check the 1929 death cert for John McLeod's actual parents, and you have now ruled this John out as being born in Dyke but he could still well be the father of Alex Ross/Mcleod b 1879 and we thanks to your efforts we now know his parents. Regards Charles
On Fri, 3 Jul 2020, 10:13 am Anne Burgess via groups.io, <anne.genlists=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote: Unfortunately facts are chiels that winna ding.
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Re: Looking for Duncan Campbell...
Lynne Roberts
Trust me - I have - I am a great believer in researching every aspect of their lives - relatives and friends etc etc - to the extent of spending over a week in Delaware and Licking Counties pouring over court and local records - visiting cemeteries (the one in Radnor is really lovely) - and pursuing every lead I could find. The full extent of my research is on my website in the Norwood files at http://www.lynnesgenealogy.com. I would research other relatives if I knew who they were and where they were from. I suspect that if there had been relatives who arrived before them, they would have been in Pennsylvania and I have never been able to identify where they settled on arrival. They were in PA for about 10 years - long enough for three children to be born - before they moved on to Licking County, OH where there are good records. I have always thought that their settling in Pennsylvania was the best and the most inconclusive information I picked up about them - has never paid off for me. But I keep looking.
On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 11:44 PM Valorie Zimmerman <valorie.zimmerman@...> wrote:
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Re: Looking for Duncan Campbell...
Lynne Roberts
This information is clearly a mishmash of information - some accurate and some not and much completely unrelated - someone has combined a lot of various Campbells and assumed that they are related and they are not. The information about Duncan's burial is relevant but doesn't match other data that I have documented. On Scotland's People I found many baptism records that were close but none were spot on. And I should note that Duncan was not Anglican or Presbyterian - he was Methodist. However, I will spend some time going over this material - it looks familiar - think I've "been there before" - but it's worth a second look. Thanks
On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 8:02 PM Josephine Conray <javc@...> wrote:
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Re: Looking for Duncan Campbell...
Lynne Roberts
Sorry - should have made it clearer - Toothaker, Rankin and Wise are the girls married names - none of the family had middle names. That didn't start until the next generation - my great grandmother was Emma Maline Campbell - daughter of son Peter who is my 2nd great grandfather. And don't think I don't know how common the name Duncan is - when I talked to Durie and gave him the name, he laughed out loud and told me to forget it. As you can see, I didn't take his advice.
On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 7:51 PM Goldie & Lido Doratti <lidogold2@...> wrote:
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Re: 40 years looking for parents of John McLeod, b. 1854 or 1855 in Dyke, Elginshire
Unfortunately facts are chiels that winna ding.
The John McLeod, coachman, married to Helen and living in Alves in 1901 gives his birthplace as Forgue, Aberdeenshire, not Dyke, Moray (FMP transcription). In 1891 John, occupation coachman, Helen and daughter Sarah were living in Elgin, and he gave his birthplace as Forgue (FMP). In 1881 he was in Nairn, birthplace again Forgue, occupation coachman (LDS CD-ROM transcription) Did you look at the 1890 marriage or 1929 death certificate to check who his parents were? Because I have just done so, and according to the marriage certificate the parents of this John McLeod were JAMES McLEOD and ANN McDONALD. Not Donald McLeod and Rebecca Ross. I don't know where you got that tree from (Ancestry?) but it's just plain wrong.
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Re: Looking for Duncan Campbell...
Dee Horn
I found this on him on bing search it seems tobe the same person
On Thursday, July 2, 2020, 04:16:37 PM MST, Lynne Roberts <lnroberts673@...> wrote:
I know - it's like looking for John Smith. I've had experts tell me that it's hopeless - David Dobson and Bruce Durie gave me some help, but in effect said it was hopeless. But hope springs eternal - and I've been looking for him for years - why stop now?
Duncan Campbell - my only immigrant ancestor - my one and only opportunity to research family naturalization and immigration records - is a complete enigma prior to just before 1800. My problem is that I have no idea - and have no way of finding out - where in Scotland he came from. I went to Scotland and spent a week at the National Archives (Scotland's People had nothing and sent me there) and found very interesting documents and letters - had a great time but found nothing to further my family research. When he first arrived with his wife Christiana and daughter Katherine, he went to Pennsylvania and stayed a couple of years prior to moving on to Ohio. Have never found credible proof of them in PA. I have researched and catalogued his life since 1816 - in Licking County, OH. He then moved on to Radnor, Delaware Co, OH where he remained for the rest of his life - and where I found him being naturalized in the court records. The one way I thought I could trace him in Scotland was through traditional naming patterns. That appears to be very useful and I think I have a line on families in the Killin, Perthshire area. As an aside, I found it extremely interesting to follow the naming pattern - it didn't identify THE family, but it sure helped to eliminate a lot of others. Info on family is: Duncan Campbell 1768 Scotland -1850 Radnor Delaware OH Christiana (Kider?) 1768 Scotland - 1849 Radnor Delaware OH Katherine Toothaker 1794 Scotland - 1844 Radnor Elizabeth Rankin 1798 PA 1861 Newark, Licking, OH Susanna Wise 1806 PA 1864 Troy, Delaware, OH Peter Campbell 1808 PA - 1856 Rochester, Racine, WI William Campbell abt 1810 - Licking Co, OH bef 5 Mar 1859 Isabella Darst - OH, 30 June 1882 Troy, Delaware, OH If anyone has any suggestions, I'd love to hear them. Have been to Radnor and through their court house and genealogy society - helpful but not for origins. He just wasn't talking and before I die I'd love to know where he came from!!! Thanks in advance for any ideas you might have Lynne
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Re: Looking for Duncan Campbell...
Hi Lynne, On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 4:16 PM Lynne Roberts <lnroberts673@...> wrote:
When you have found all you can about a person or family, then it's time to investigate their FAN club. What's that? Family, Associates, and Neighbors. I'm sure we've all heard (and usually ignored)the advice to always read the 3 pages before your family in the census, and the 3 pages after. Well, that's one way to start -- look at the earliest records you have, and who the family, associates and neighbors are. Move forward through time, and notice who shows up. Who are the witnesses? Pallbearers? What families did the children marry into? Begin with doing thorough research of any siblings or other close relatives who may have preceded them to Pennsylvania and then Ohio? Or accompanied them, and came later to join them? Have you checked old newspapers for social stories about the family? People usually came to a new place for a reason, and very often traveled with locals if not family. For a bit more about this tactic, see https://lisalouisecooke.com/2016/10/29/genealogy-fan-club/ among many others. Hope this helps, Valorie
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Re: Looking for Duncan Campbell...
Donald Young
Hi Elizabeth;
If you haven’t already checked .... There are a number of trees on Ancestry
that have these individuals. You might find something in one or more of
them.
Blessings,
Donald Young
From: Eliz Cook
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2020 9:06 PM
Subject: Re: [ScotGen] Looking for Duncan
Campbell... Does
the immigration record say where he boarded the boat? Eliz
On 3 Jul 2020, at 9:16 am, Lynne Roberts <lnroberts673@...> wrote:
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