Date   

Re: 1881 census on Window 10

Howard
 

Allan,

To access the CDs, I use Oracle VM VirtualBox (free to download) inside which I installed Windows XP, using the original CD that came with my old XP machine. The only thing to remember is to have an 1881 CD loaded before powering up VirtualBox because it won't recognise an empty CD/DVD drive.

If I recall, I first did this on a W7 machine, and later on I was able to export VirtualBox from the W7 environment to a the W10 environment without the rigmarole of reinstallation. I have other specialised software working within VirtualBox which have not worked in W7 since before the beginning of time, let alone W10.

There are probably nowadays a myriad other ways, although initially I did try Windows Virtual PC which turned out to be a useless heap of junk.

Howard


Re: Searching for John McLeod

Claude Hanson
 

Anne:
Wow!  I appreciate the way you think and am very happy to have helping solve my problem.  As I've mentioned before, I started my genealogy efforts in 1979 and I know quality thinking when I encounter it.  I've made many assumptions and had to backtrack that I can tell when someone is trying to tell me to slow down and know that eventually you'll have to triangulate the data before you can prove it.
Now, to your question, I'm thinking you meant Donald Ross.... not Donald Munro.  I read the death record more closely this morning...and here is what I've  found.  He was single and died August 16. 1857 in Snab.  He was 49 years old.  His father was John Ross and his mother was Mary (maiden name not given).  That would infer his  birth date as either '07, '08, or '09.  He was buried in Dyke and there was no sexton.  The informant was William Mitchell, brother-in-law.  He could be the husband of one of those possible older sisters....as usual, a new clue to investigate!!!
     Have a great day!
Claude

On Thu, Jul 9, 2020 at 3:29 AM Allan MacBain <testerscot@...> wrote:
Not to try to hijack this thread; but...
Are you on a Windows 10 computer, Ann? And, if so, how are you managing to view the 1881 data discs? 
I have the set, but can't find a clear solution to accessing it on a Win10 system.

Also... I *really* want access to the various Kirk Session records!!! :D

Allan MacBain MBCS
Associate Genealogist (UK & Europe), Clan MacBean Association

On Thu, 9 Jul 2020 at 09:34, Anne Burgess via groups.io <anne.genlists=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:
Ross and Cromarty is the name of the county, and it is informally divided into Easter Ross and Wester Ross. All the places we have mentioned in R&C so far are in Easter Ross.

I wouldn't dismiss the other children born to John Ross and Christian Munro in Easter Ross. Christian was listed as aged 65 in 1841, so she could have been anything between 65 and 69 if that is accurate, so born between 1771 and 1776. A marriage date of 1805 would fit, and the last two children were baptised in Nigg, which is where Donald says that he and Christina were born. There's a long gap between 1805 and Donald's birth year, so it would all fit together.

I have to confess to cheating slightly with the 1881 census, because I have a set of the LDS CD-ROM transcription of the 1881 census, which makes searching a lot easier once you are aware of its quirks. Ladysbridge Hospital is in the County of Banff, Parish of Boyndie. Census 1881, parish No 143, Enumeration book 3, page 10.

It's quite likely that there is no surviving record of Christian's death. The best you could hope for would be a record in the Dyke Kirk Session minutes of payment for the mortcloth. Every parish had a mortcloth (or sometimes more than one) which was draped over the coffin during the funeral service, and there was a fee for the use of it, the money going towards the funds for the relief of the poor of the parish. These amounts are often listed in the parish accounts. The Kirk Session is the committee made up of minister and elders that runs the business of the kirk. The records are mostly held in the National Records of Scotland, and the do include the Dyke KS for the relevant years. They KS minutes have all been digitised, and Scotland's People intends to make them available but so far has not managed to do so for technical reasons. In the meantime they can be viewed on-screen in Edinburgh and in a few local archives, but of course they are all closed at the moment because of coronavirus.

Out of curiosity, who were the parents of the Donald Munro who died in Dyke in 1857, and who was the informant?






Re: Searching for John McLeod

Allan MacBain
 

Not to try to hijack this thread; but...
Are you on a Windows 10 computer, Ann? And, if so, how are you managing to view the 1881 data discs? 
I have the set, but can't find a clear solution to accessing it on a Win10 system.

Also... I *really* want access to the various Kirk Session records!!! :D

Allan MacBain MBCS
Associate Genealogist (UK & Europe), Clan MacBean Association

On Thu, 9 Jul 2020 at 09:34, Anne Burgess via groups.io <anne.genlists=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:
Ross and Cromarty is the name of the county, and it is informally divided into Easter Ross and Wester Ross. All the places we have mentioned in R&C so far are in Easter Ross.

I wouldn't dismiss the other children born to John Ross and Christian Munro in Easter Ross. Christian was listed as aged 65 in 1841, so she could have been anything between 65 and 69 if that is accurate, so born between 1771 and 1776. A marriage date of 1805 would fit, and the last two children were baptised in Nigg, which is where Donald says that he and Christina were born. There's a long gap between 1805 and Donald's birth year, so it would all fit together.

I have to confess to cheating slightly with the 1881 census, because I have a set of the LDS CD-ROM transcription of the 1881 census, which makes searching a lot easier once you are aware of its quirks. Ladysbridge Hospital is in the County of Banff, Parish of Boyndie. Census 1881, parish No 143, Enumeration book 3, page 10.

It's quite likely that there is no surviving record of Christian's death. The best you could hope for would be a record in the Dyke Kirk Session minutes of payment for the mortcloth. Every parish had a mortcloth (or sometimes more than one) which was draped over the coffin during the funeral service, and there was a fee for the use of it, the money going towards the funds for the relief of the poor of the parish. These amounts are often listed in the parish accounts. The Kirk Session is the committee made up of minister and elders that runs the business of the kirk. The records are mostly held in the National Records of Scotland, and the do include the Dyke KS for the relevant years. They KS minutes have all been digitised, and Scotland's People intends to make them available but so far has not managed to do so for technical reasons. In the meantime they can be viewed on-screen in Edinburgh and in a few local archives, but of course they are all closed at the moment because of coronavirus.

Out of curiosity, who were the parents of the Donald Munro who died in Dyke in 1857, and who was the informant?






Re: Searching for John McLeod

Anne Burgess
 

Ross and Cromarty is the name of the county, and it is informally divided into Easter Ross and Wester Ross. All the places we have mentioned in R&C so far are in Easter Ross.

I wouldn't dismiss the other children born to John Ross and Christian Munro in Easter Ross. Christian was listed as aged 65 in 1841, so she could have been anything between 65 and 69 if that is accurate, so born between 1771 and 1776. A marriage date of 1805 would fit, and the last two children were baptised in Nigg, which is where Donald says that he and Christina were born. There's a long gap between 1805 and Donald's birth year, so it would all fit together.

I have to confess to cheating slightly with the 1881 census, because I have a set of the LDS CD-ROM transcription of the 1881 census, which makes searching a lot easier once you are aware of its quirks. Ladysbridge Hospital is in the County of Banff, Parish of Boyndie. Census 1881, parish No 143, Enumeration book 3, page 10.

It's quite likely that there is no surviving record of Christian's death. The best you could hope for would be a record in the Dyke Kirk Session minutes of payment for the mortcloth. Every parish had a mortcloth (or sometimes more than one) which was draped over the coffin during the funeral service, and there was a fee for the use of it, the money going towards the funds for the relief of the poor of the parish. These amounts are often listed in the parish accounts. The Kirk Session is the committee made up of minister and elders that runs the business of the kirk. The records are mostly held in the National Records of Scotland, and the do include the Dyke KS for the relevant years. They KS minutes have all been digitised, and Scotland's People intends to make them available but so far has not managed to do so for technical reasons. In the meantime they can be viewed on-screen in Edinburgh and in a few local archives, but of course they are all closed at the moment because of coronavirus.

Out of curiosity, who were the parents of the Donald Munro who died in Dyke in 1857, and who was the informant?


Re: Searching for John McLeod

Claude Hanson
 

Thanks Anne:  
I feel better in knowing you are not irritated with me.... and thanks for the suggestions.  I'm thinking those kids born to a couple with the same name are not in the same family that has three siblings - Donald, Christina, and Rebecca.  But, I'll continue to look.  I remember years and years ago when I was trying to find the parents of my John Ross (b. abt. 1814 in Kinloss) that finding the right Alexander Ross and Margaret Bremner in that Ross Chromity (?) took me months to find the right one.... but, that was 30 or more years ago and we didn't have computers....  
     I'm anxious to get the records from Ladybridge Hospital to see if the John McLeod on the 1881 census was really from Dyke.  From the information I received from the archivist, it will probably be months, years, or never before she can look at those records.  I tried to find the census to see what you saw; but my ignorance on how to use Scotland's People overwhelmed me!!!  By the way, I did find a death record for Christina Ross in Forres.  She died a year or two before Rebecca's marriage and death.  I haven't found anything abt their brother Donald....and I haven't found a death record for their mother Christian.  Oh well, these problems are very minor when compared with our real problems in the U.S. -- the President and the virus!!!!

Claude

On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 2:12 AM Anne Burgess via groups.io <anne.genlists=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:
No, you are not getting on my nerves.

I did find it irritating that someone made exactly the assumption that I had specifically warned against in an earlier message in this very thread, but that isn't important.

The most likely one, I suggest, is John Ross to Chrity Munro in Kilmuir Easter on 22 March 1805. (The index spells her name as Chrity). However don't expect too much from the original record. It will not, for instance, tell you the names of their parents.

There are baptisms of Margaret, 1808; Catherine, 1809; Janet, 1810 and Kathrine and Isabel, 1812, to parents with these names, the first three in the Church of Scotland registers (Kilmuir Easter, Cromarty and Rosskeen respectively) and the last two in Nigg Associate, all in Easter Ross.

There is also a Margaret in 1813 in Edinburgh. This last one could be a couple with the same names, of course, as it's a long way from Easter Ross to Edinburgh.

So it all looks plausible, but I am not sure how easy it would be to prove it is the same family.




Re: Searching for John McLeod

Anne Burgess
 

No, you are not getting on my nerves.

I did find it irritating that someone made exactly the assumption that I had specifically warned against in an earlier message in this very thread, but that isn't important.

The most likely one, I suggest, is John Ross to Chrity Munro in Kilmuir Easter on 22 March 1805. (The index spells her name as Chrity). However don't expect too much from the original record. It will not, for instance, tell you the names of their parents.

There are baptisms of Margaret, 1808; Catherine, 1809; Janet, 1810 and Kathrine and Isabel, 1812, to parents with these names, the first three in the Church of Scotland registers (Kilmuir Easter, Cromarty and Rosskeen respectively) and the last two in Nigg Associate, all in Easter Ross.

There is also a Margaret in 1813 in Edinburgh. This last one could be a couple with the same names, of course, as it's a long way from Easter Ross to Edinburgh.

So it all looks plausible, but I am not sure how easy it would be to prove it is the same family.


Re: Searching for John McLeod

Claude Hanson
 

Anne:  Just got a message from the group and apparently my message last night about my contact with the Grampian cite and the fact that I'm not searching for the marriage of Christian Munro and John Ross, the parents of Donald, Christina, and Rebecca.  The message wasn't delivered because it didn't have a subject... it asked me to put the subject in and send it again.... I tried and couldn't figure out how to do that.  Sorry for the confusion.  My ignorance is overwhelming!!!  Claude


On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 1:31 PM Wayne Shepheard <wshepheard@...> wrote:
Ann,

Normally I would agree with you but in the case of my wife's grandfather and great-grandmother, the information about parentage on their marriage records (two each) was not correct. In fact, both told fibs all the way through their lives, on marriage records, censuses, military service records, etc. The only accurate information about great-gramma's parentage was on her death information which was given by a nephew, a son of one of her sisters. Both of her sisters, by the way, did offer the correct information about their parents on their own marriage records.

Grandpa, perhaps because he was illegitimate, rarely gave the correct information about his parentage. Information about his parents on his death record, unfortunately, was wrong as well. I think this was because the informant, my wife's mother, was never told the entire truth about her father's family. She took the erroneous information from her father's marriage record.

The lesson here is never completely trust any record, but look for many different sources in order to determine what might be the real truth about relationships.

Wayne Shepheard


On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 4:05 AM Anne Burgess via groups.io <anne.genlists=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:
I think that is wrong information by her widower. When there is a conflict between information on a marriage and information on the death certificate, I tend to believe the marriage because in that case the person is alive to provide the information, whereas with a death certificate the information is only as good as what the informant thinks he knows.



Re: Searching for John McLeod

Claude Hanson
 

Anne:  As I told you in a previous message, I also printed that marriage from Scotspeople.  I am now looking for a marriage record the Chistian Munro and a John Ross, the parents of Donald, Christina and Rebecca.  Unless I'm interpreting this last message from wrong, I must be getting on your nerves.  If so, I'm sorry.  I'm curious and ignorant and try not to be witless and thoughtless.  I do appreciate all the help you have provided.  Claude


On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 6:20 AM Josephine Conray <javc@...> wrote:
Sorry for trying to help I will keep out of it.





-----Original Message-----
From: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io [mailto:Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io] On Behalf Of Anne Burgess via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, 7 July 2020 7:15 PM
To: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ScotGen] Searching for John McLeod

Indeed, all that information is readily available, But it is all transcriptions and index listings.

"Working on the marriage date she should have been born about 1841". Well, too bad, but making wild guesses like that is how errors get into online trees. I even warned about this particular assumption in a post two days ago on this very thread. I have only seen a small proportion of all the marriage certificates in the Scottish records - just under 5,000 for my own family and maybe another couple of thousand for other people's trees - and the number of women who married at age 21 (let alone younger) is very low. Most were in their mid to late 20s at marriage.

Also, as I have already said upthread, I bought a copy of the marriage certificate of David Winchester and Rebeccia Ross. It says there, in clearly handwritten black and white, that David was 25 and Rebecca was 35. Yes, thirty-five years old. Not 21. This is consistent with her age in the assorted censuses and with her death aged 38.

Those extracts from assorted indexes are very useful indeed far saving time hunting down the original records. You can then go to a Family History Centre, arrange to rent one of the FHL films mentioned about, and then go back, view the films in the FHC, and make notes from it. Or you can go online to www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk and download digital images of the certificates on the spot, for less than the cost of a cup of coffee or a pint of beer each.

There is ***NO*** substitute for looking at the original documents.







Re: Searching for John McLeod

Josephine Conray
 

Sorry for trying to help I will keep out of it.

-----Original Message-----
From: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io [mailto:Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io] On Behalf Of Anne Burgess via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, 7 July 2020 7:15 PM
To: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ScotGen] Searching for John McLeod

Indeed, all that information is readily available, But it is all transcriptions and index listings.

"Working on the marriage date she should have been born about 1841". Well, too bad, but making wild guesses like that is how errors get into online trees. I even warned about this particular assumption in a post two days ago on this very thread. I have only seen a small proportion of all the marriage certificates in the Scottish records - just under 5,000 for my own family and maybe another couple of thousand for other people's trees - and the number of women who married at age 21 (let alone younger) is very low. Most were in their mid to late 20s at marriage.

Also, as I have already said upthread, I bought a copy of the marriage certificate of David Winchester and Rebeccia Ross. It says there, in clearly handwritten black and white, that David was 25 and Rebecca was 35. Yes, thirty-five years old. Not 21. This is consistent with her age in the assorted censuses and with her death aged 38.

Those extracts from assorted indexes are very useful indeed far saving time hunting down the original records. You can then go to a Family History Centre, arrange to rent one of the FHL films mentioned about, and then go back, view the films in the FHC, and make notes from it. Or you can go online to www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk and download digital images of the certificates on the spot, for less than the cost of a cup of coffee or a pint of beer each.

There is ***NO*** substitute for looking at the original documents.


Re: Searching for John McLeod

Anne Burgess
 

Indeed, all that information is readily available, But it is all transcriptions and index listings.

"Working on the marriage date she should have been born about 1841". Well, too bad, but making wild guesses like that is how errors get into online trees. I even warned about this particular assumption in a post two days ago on this very thread. I have only seen a small proportion of all the marriage certificates in the Scottish records - just under 5,000 for my own family and maybe another couple of thousand for other people's trees - and the number of women who married at age 21 (let alone younger) is very low. Most were in their mid to late 20s at marriage.

Also, as I have already said upthread, I bought a copy of the marriage certificate of David Winchester and Rebeccia Ross. It says there, in clearly handwritten black and white, that David was 25 and Rebecca was 35. Yes, thirty-five years old. Not 21. This is consistent with her age in the assorted censuses and with her death aged 38.

Those extracts from assorted indexes are very useful indeed far saving time hunting down the original records. You can then go to a Family History Centre, arrange to rent one of the FHL films mentioned about, and then go back, view the films in the FHC, and make notes from it. Or you can go online to www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk and download digital images of the certificates on the spot, for less than the cost of a cup of coffee or a pint of beer each.

There is ***NO*** substitute for looking at the original documents.


Re: Searching for John McLeod

Wayne Shepheard
 

Ann,

Normally I would agree with you but in the case of my wife's grandfather and great-grandmother, the information about parentage on their marriage records (two each) was not correct. In fact, both told fibs all the way through their lives, on marriage records, censuses, military service records, etc. The only accurate information about great-gramma's parentage was on her death information which was given by a nephew, a son of one of her sisters. Both of her sisters, by the way, did offer the correct information about their parents on their own marriage records.

Grandpa, perhaps because he was illegitimate, rarely gave the correct information about his parentage. Information about his parents on his death record, unfortunately, was wrong as well. I think this was because the informant, my wife's mother, was never told the entire truth about her father's family. She took the erroneous information from her father's marriage record.

The lesson here is never completely trust any record, but look for many different sources in order to determine what might be the real truth about relationships.

Wayne Shepheard


On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 4:05 AM Anne Burgess via groups.io <anne.genlists=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:
I think that is wrong information by her widower. When there is a conflict between information on a marriage and information on the death certificate, I tend to believe the marriage because in that case the person is alive to provide the information, whereas with a death certificate the information is only as good as what the informant thinks he knows.



Re: Searching for John McLeod

Claude Hanson
 

Anne:  I just retrieved those death records and sibling Donald does not match; however, sibling Christina is the correct one...her father is John Ross and mother is Christian Munro - informant was Rebecca.


On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 4:05 AM Anne Burgess via groups.io <anne.genlists=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:
I think that is wrong information by her widower. When there is a conflict between information on a marriage and information on the death certificate, I tend to believe the marriage because in that case the person is alive to provide the information, whereas with a death certificate the information is only as good as what the informant thinks he knows.

Be very careful not to make assumptions about Christian Munro and her husband. In the 1841 census adults' ages were rounded down to the nearest 5 years. The census was taken on 7 June 1841, so if Christian's stated age is accurate she would have been born between 8 June 1771 and 7 June 1776. Also, she said in the 1841 that she was not born in Moray. In 1851 Donald and Christian jr say they were born in Nigg, Ross and Cromarty and Rebecca was born in Nairn, and in 1861 both Christian jr and Rebecca say Nairn. There was quite a bit of migration from the northern counties, and a family starting out in Ross-shire, moving to Nairn and then moving again to Moray wouldn't be unusual.

Do we know what happened to Rebecca's siblings? She and her sister were both described in the 1861 census as 'retired farmer' (and so was the 7-year-old John!). Her brother could be the Donald Ross, aged 49, who died in Dyke in 1857.  Christina Ross, mother's maiden surname Munro, died in Forres in 1861, aged 48. Their death certificates should settle that.

You also said, "On the birth record of John McLeod, in 1853, it says his mother Rebecca, was from Snab and his father was from Dalvey.  And what does it mean when there is a blank for where he was baptised." It means that the clerk probably wrote it down after the event, and didn't have the exact date to hand, and then forgot to fill it in later.

There are several places called Dalvey, but the nearest one to Snab is this one https://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NJ0058 so it would be reasonable to suppose that John's father Donald McLeod lived at this Dalvey, in the same parish. This map shows both Snab of Moy and Dalvey House https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15&lat=57.61561&lon=-3.68723&layers=5&b=1 (you may need to zoom in a bit). But farm workers, especially young unmarried ones, did tend to move around quite a lot, so he may not have been there on the day of the 1851 census, let alone the 1861.





Re: Searching for John McLeod

Anne Burgess
 

I think that is wrong information by her widower. When there is a conflict between information on a marriage and information on the death certificate, I tend to believe the marriage because in that case the person is alive to provide the information, whereas with a death certificate the information is only as good as what the informant thinks he knows.

Be very careful not to make assumptions about Christian Munro and her husband. In the 1841 census adults' ages were rounded down to the nearest 5 years. The census was taken on 7 June 1841, so if Christian's stated age is accurate she would have been born between 8 June 1771 and 7 June 1776. Also, she said in the 1841 that she was not born in Moray. In 1851 Donald and Christian jr say they were born in Nigg, Ross and Cromarty and Rebecca was born in Nairn, and in 1861 both Christian jr and Rebecca say Nairn. There was quite a bit of migration from the northern counties, and a family starting out in Ross-shire, moving to Nairn and then moving again to Moray wouldn't be unusual.

Do we know what happened to Rebecca's siblings? She and her sister were both described in the 1861 census as 'retired farmer' (and so was the 7-year-old John!). Her brother could be the Donald Ross, aged 49, who died in Dyke in 1857. Christina Ross, mother's maiden surname Munro, died in Forres in 1861, aged 48. Their death certificates should settle that.

You also said, "On the birth record of John McLeod, in 1853, it says his mother Rebecca, was from Snab and his father was from Dalvey. And what does it mean when there is a blank for where he was baptised." It means that the clerk probably wrote it down after the event, and didn't have the exact date to hand, and then forgot to fill it in later.

There are several places called Dalvey, but the nearest one to Snab is this one https://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NJ0058 so it would be reasonable to suppose that John's father Donald McLeod lived at this Dalvey, in the same parish. This map shows both Snab of Moy and Dalvey House https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15&lat=57.61561&lon=-3.68723&layers=5&b=1 (you may need to zoom in a bit). But farm workers, especially young unmarried ones, did tend to move around quite a lot, so he may not have been there on the day of the 1851 census, let alone the 1861.


Re: Searching for John McLeod

Josephine Conray
 

 

Hi Claude

 

Just found this  you might be able to order the film in at the LDS center

 

 

 

Name:

John Mcleod

Gender:

Male

Birth Date:

2 Nov 1853

Birth Place:

Dyke, Moray, Scotland

Father:

Donald Mcleod

Mother:

Rebekah Ross

FHL Film Number:

990796

 

 

 

Cheers

Josephine

Qld Aust.

 

 

From: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io [mailto:Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io] On Behalf Of Claude Hanson
Sent: Monday, 6 July 2020 2:13 AM
To: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ScotGen] Searching for John McLeod

 

This computer is so darned sensitive!  I have just sent two messages as I was beginning to write them.  I have learned to use Scotland's People well enough to use up my first purchase of points.  I have been doing genealogy for almost 41 years and I learned years ago to only record on my trees the hard data, not information from others, although in many cases it can be validated by finding the original recording (I call that "hard" data) so the information does serve as clues.

     On the birth record of John McLeod, in 1853, it says his mother Rebecca, was from Snab and his father was from Dalvey.  And what does it mean when there is a blank for where he was baptised.  I have looked a bit to find the father of John McLeod  and the only Donald McLeod I can find was 49 years old in 1851.  (and, I was so exhausted last night (4th of July), I don't even remember where  it saw that).

      When I'm using Scotland's People, I keep thinking it's home must be the place we visited 24 years ago.  My wife's cousin told us to be sure to get there early because there would be a long que!  None of us had ever heard of that phrase before and had no idea what she meant.  When we got there a long line was forming.... so we discovered that que in Scotland is the same as "waiting line" in Idaho!

     It will be nice when I can again spend every Tuesday morning at our LDS family history center.  It's been closed since late February because of the wicked virus!!!!

     Anne, I finally found the marriage for Rebecca Ross and the  birth record for John McLeod.  I was looking at in  a cite that limited the church records for marriages and I was looking in an area that only had births since 1855.  I'm learning.

Claude 


Re: Searching for John McLeod

Josephine Conray
 

Hi Claude.

 

My Dad was called Claude nice name. I know a lot of people don’t like Ancestry because of mistakes.  I think you should not discard the information in Family trees on Ancestry there might be one thing in that information that might break down walls for your tree. It is up to the person to prove or disprove the information.

 

I am not sure it these records below are the same David & Rebeccia Winchester that you are looking for; because on Ann Burgess email she said that Rebeccia Winchester died in Forres in 1864, age 38 that would make her born about 1826 I think that is a bit too old.

 

 

I found this information for David Winchester,

 

This is the birth & baptism info for David.

Name:

David Winchester

Gender:

Male

Birth Date:

8 Dec 1839

Baptism Date:

3 Jan 1840

Baptism Place:

Edinkillie, Moray, Scotland

Father:

James Winchester

Mother:

Leslie Macpherson

FHL Film Number:

990797

 

This is the marriage to a Rebeccia Ross  cannot find any children. Working on the marriage date she should have been born about 1841

Name:

David Winchester

Gender:

Male

Marriage Date:

13 Jun 1862

Marriage Place:

Forres, Moray, Scotland

Spouse:

Rebeccia Ross

FHL Film Number:

6035516

 

This is the death of Rebeccia

Name:

Rebecca Winchester

Maiden Name:

Ross

Death Date:

2 May 1864

Death Place:

High Street Forres

Spouse:

David Winchester Carrier Forres

Original URL:

http://libindx.moray.gov.uk/pe...

 

 

This is the marriage to Margaret B Grant

Name:

David Winchester

Gender:

Male

Marriage Date:

8 Dec 1865

Marriage Place:

Forres, Moray, Scotland

Spouse:

Margaret Brander Grant

FHL Film Number:

6035516

 

The children that I found for the marriage of David Winchester & Margaret Grant are

 

Diavid dee Winchester born 1859 Kinloss, Englinshire and Died in the USA he married twice Jessie McLarn Louder b1863 Glassford Lanarkshire in Scotland they had 8 Eight children  then he married Emma C (unknown)  Winchester in the USA she was born24 Dec 1881 in Mississippi & died 1 March 1948 3 Three children so far.

In the 1871 Census that I found David is the son of David & Margaret.

 

Eliza Ann 8 Feb 1863 Forres Elginshire

James 3 June 1873 Forres, Morayshire.

Margaret Lesslie 1 June 1874 Forres

 

Hope this helps

Josephine

Qld Aust.

 

 

 

 

From: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io [mailto:Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io] On Behalf Of Claude Hanson
Sent: Monday, 6 July 2020 2:13 AM
To: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ScotGen] Searching for John McLeod

 

This computer is so darned sensitive!  I have just sent two messages as I was beginning to write them.  I have learned to use Scotland's People well enough to use up my first purchase of points.  I have been doing genealogy for almost 41 years and I learned years ago to only record on my trees the hard data, not information from others, although in many cases it can be validated by finding the original recording (I call that "hard" data) so the information does serve as clues.

     On the birth record of John McLeod, in 1853, it says his mother Rebecca, was from Snab and his father was from Dalvey.  And what does it mean when there is a blank for where he was baptised.  I have looked a bit to find the father of John McLeod  and the only Donald McLeod I can find was 49 years old in 1851.  (and, I was so exhausted last night (4th of July), I don't even remember where  it saw that).

      When I'm using Scotland's People, I keep thinking it's home must be the place we visited 24 years ago.  My wife's cousin told us to be sure to get there early because there would be a long que!  None of us had ever heard of that phrase before and had no idea what she meant.  When we got there a long line was forming.... so we discovered that que in Scotland is the same as "waiting line" in Idaho!

     It will be nice when I can again spend every Tuesday morning at our LDS family history center.  It's been closed since late February because of the wicked virus!!!!

     Anne, I finally found the marriage for Rebecca Ross and the  birth record for John McLeod.  I was looking at in  a cite that limited the church records for marriages and I was looking in an area that only had births since 1855.  I'm learning.

Claude 


Re: Searching for John McLeod

Claude Hanson
 

Anne, I also made a copy of Rebecca's death record and it states her mother's name was Margaret Ross...I think that is wrong information given by her almost new husband.  When she was giving the information for her marriage she said her mother was Christian Munro.  What do you think?  I found a christening record from Edenkillie, Morayshire for 20 Feb 1877 and she was 65 on the 1841 census... so that is probably her.  I also found a birth record for a John Ross, christened 1 Aug 1776 in Dyke to a father Alexander Ross and another John Ross, christened 2 Oct 1779.  Neither gives a mother's name.  I'd like to nail down Rebecca's info before I get to John McLeod's father Donald's family.  My trees are all on Roots Magic and I haven't entered a date or name in more than three months....  I've tried to find the birthplace for the Ross siblings - Don, Christian, and Rebecca ... and, not surprisingly, to no avail.  I'd like to blame it on Trump or the virus; but even I am smarter than that!  Claude


On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 5:37 PM Goldie & Lido Doratti <lidogold2@...> wrote:
How good that is!!  From Canada I wish I could book a person to look for what I want and need.  The cost of hiring a genealogist is over the moon for a few sheets of paper.  Scotland’s People should hire someone to find what overseas folks need and want.  I was there many years ago and all I can say about the folks at Princess Street is that they were so VERY kind and considerate....AND most helpful to someone who hadn’t been before and likely wouldn’t be again.  God Bless them all...GOOD folks all of them.  Goldie
 
From: Iain MacIntosh
Sent: Sunday, July 5, 2020 12:01 PM
To: Scots@scotland-genealogy.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ScotGen] Searching for John McLeod
 
Progress is a great thing.  You can book a terminal online down to th room and seat you prefer. You pay in advanceAnd go straight to your booked place. No queues ... unless you arrive early!

 
Iain
 
 
 



 
Iain
 
 
 
On 5 Jul 2020, at 17:12, Claude Hanson <claudehanson@...> wrote:


This computer is so darned sensitive!  I have just sent two messages as I was beginning to write them.  I have learned to use Scotland's People well enough to use up my first purchase of points.  I have been doing genealogy for almost 41 years and I learned years ago to only record on my trees the hard data, not information from others, although in many cases it can be validated by finding the original recording (I call that "hard" data) so the information does serve as clues.
     On the birth record of John McLeod, in 1853, it says his mother Rebecca, was from Snab and his father was from Dalvey.  And what does it mean when there is a blank for where he was baptised.  I have looked a bit to find the father of John McLeod  and the only Donald McLeod I can find was 49 years old in 1851.  (and, I was so exhausted last night (4th of July), I don't even remember where  it saw that).
      When I'm using Scotland's People, I keep thinking it's home must be the place we visited 24 years ago.  My wife's cousin told us to be sure to get there early because there would be a long que!  None of us had ever heard of that phrase before and had no idea what she meant.  When we got there a long line was forming.... so we discovered that que in Scotland is the same as "waiting line" in Idaho!
     It will be nice when I can again spend every Tuesday morning at our LDS family history center.  It's been closed since late February because of the wicked virus!!!!
     Anne, I finally found the marriage for Rebecca Ross and the  birth record for John McLeod.  I was looking at in  a cite that limited the church records for marriages and I was looking in an area that only had births since 1855.  I'm learning.
Claude


Re: Searching for John McLeod

Goldie & Lido Doratti
 

How good that is!!  From Canada I wish I could book a person to look for what I want and need.  The cost of hiring a genealogist is over the moon for a few sheets of paper.  Scotland’s People should hire someone to find what overseas folks need and want.  I was there many years ago and all I can say about the folks at Princess Street is that they were so VERY kind and considerate....AND most helpful to someone who hadn’t been before and likely wouldn’t be again.  God Bless them all...GOOD folks all of them.  Goldie
 

From: Iain MacIntosh
Sent: Sunday, July 5, 2020 12:01 PM
To: Scots@scotland-genealogy.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ScotGen] Searching for John McLeod
 
Progress is a great thing.  You can book a terminal online down to th room and seat you prefer. You pay in advanceAnd go straight to your booked place. No queues ... unless you arrive early!

 
Iain
 
 
 



 
Iain
 
 
 
On 5 Jul 2020, at 17:12, Claude Hanson <claudehanson@...> wrote:


This computer is so darned sensitive!  I have just sent two messages as I was beginning to write them.  I have learned to use Scotland's People well enough to use up my first purchase of points.  I have been doing genealogy for almost 41 years and I learned years ago to only record on my trees the hard data, not information from others, although in many cases it can be validated by finding the original recording (I call that "hard" data) so the information does serve as clues.
     On the birth record of John McLeod, in 1853, it says his mother Rebecca, was from Snab and his father was from Dalvey.  And what does it mean when there is a blank for where he was baptised.  I have looked a bit to find the father of John McLeod  and the only Donald McLeod I can find was 49 years old in 1851.  (and, I was so exhausted last night (4th of July), I don't even remember where  it saw that).
      When I'm using Scotland's People, I keep thinking it's home must be the place we visited 24 years ago.  My wife's cousin told us to be sure to get there early because there would be a long que!  None of us had ever heard of that phrase before and had no idea what she meant.  When we got there a long line was forming.... so we discovered that que in Scotland is the same as "waiting line" in Idaho!
     It will be nice when I can again spend every Tuesday morning at our LDS family history center.  It's been closed since late February because of the wicked virus!!!!
     Anne, I finally found the marriage for Rebecca Ross and the  birth record for John McLeod.  I was looking at in  a cite that limited the church records for marriages and I was looking in an area that only had births since 1855.  I'm learning.
Claude


Re: Searching for John McLeod

Iain MacIntosh
 

Progress is a great thing.  You can book a terminal online down to th room and seat you prefer. You pay in advanceAnd go straight to your booked place. No queues ... unless you arrive early!


Iain 







Iain 



On 5 Jul 2020, at 17:12, Claude Hanson <claudehanson@...> wrote:


This computer is so darned sensitive!  I have just sent two messages as I was beginning to write them.  I have learned to use Scotland's People well enough to use up my first purchase of points.  I have been doing genealogy for almost 41 years and I learned years ago to only record on my trees the hard data, not information from others, although in many cases it can be validated by finding the original recording (I call that "hard" data) so the information does serve as clues.
     On the birth record of John McLeod, in 1853, it says his mother Rebecca, was from Snab and his father was from Dalvey.  And what does it mean when there is a blank for where he was baptised.  I have looked a bit to find the father of John McLeod  and the only Donald McLeod I can find was 49 years old in 1851.  (and, I was so exhausted last night (4th of July), I don't even remember where  it saw that).
      When I'm using Scotland's People, I keep thinking it's home must be the place we visited 24 years ago.  My wife's cousin told us to be sure to get there early because there would be a long que!  None of us had ever heard of that phrase before and had no idea what she meant.  When we got there a long line was forming.... so we discovered that que in Scotland is the same as "waiting line" in Idaho!
     It will be nice when I can again spend every Tuesday morning at our LDS family history center.  It's been closed since late February because of the wicked virus!!!!
     Anne, I finally found the marriage for Rebecca Ross and the  birth record for John McLeod.  I was looking at in  a cite that limited the church records for marriages and I was looking in an area that only had births since 1855.  I'm learning.
Claude 


Re: Searching for John McLeod

Claude Hanson
 

This computer is so darned sensitive!  I have just sent two messages as I was beginning to write them.  I have learned to use Scotland's People well enough to use up my first purchase of points.  I have been doing genealogy for almost 41 years and I learned years ago to only record on my trees the hard data, not information from others, although in many cases it can be validated by finding the original recording (I call that "hard" data) so the information does serve as clues.
     On the birth record of John McLeod, in 1853, it says his mother Rebecca, was from Snab and his father was from Dalvey.  And what does it mean when there is a blank for where he was baptised.  I have looked a bit to find the father of John McLeod  and the only Donald McLeod I can find was 49 years old in 1851.  (and, I was so exhausted last night (4th of July), I don't even remember where  it saw that).
      When I'm using Scotland's People, I keep thinking it's home must be the place we visited 24 years ago.  My wife's cousin told us to be sure to get there early because there would be a long que!  None of us had ever heard of that phrase before and had no idea what she meant.  When we got there a long line was forming.... so we discovered that que in Scotland is the same as "waiting line" in Idaho!
     It will be nice when I can again spend every Tuesday morning at our LDS family history center.  It's been closed since late February because of the wicked virus!!!!
     Anne, I finally found the marriage for Rebecca Ross and the  birth record for John McLeod.  I was looking at in  a cite that limited the church records for marriages and I was looking in an area that only had births since 1855.  I'm learning.
Claude 


Re: Searching for John McLeod

Claude Hanson
 

Well, I lgu


On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 9:25 AM Claude Hanson <claudehanson@...> wrote:
Thanks for all the help.  I am finally learning how to use Scotland's People and have used up my first purchase of point

On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 5:39 AM Allan MacBain <testerscot@...> wrote:
I can only reiterate, and _emphasise_ what Anne has said... be a Berean - as Paul of Tarsus enjoined all Christians to be - "These (Berea) were more noble than those in Thessalonica in that they received the word with all readiness of mind and searched the scriptures daily whether those things were so."
Take your sources... from *wherever* they may be... then check, and _double-check_ them for accuracy. :-)

Allan MacBain MBCS
Associate Genealogist (UK & Europe), Clan MacBean Association.

On Sun, 5 Jul 2020 at 09:34, Anne Burgess via groups.io <anne.genlists=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:
I use the IGI on FamilySearch a lot, but usually only the 'Community indexed' section - I do not trust the 'Community contributed' section at all.

They also had a nasty habit of assuming that a man was aged 25 when he married, and a woman was 21, and 'calculating' a date of birth from this. They also assumed that someone was 'of' the place where they got married, oblivious to the fact that in Scotland, someone who is 'of xxx' is the landowner of xxx, not just someone who happens to have lived there.

I think the IGI is a wonderful tool, for all its many drawbacks (not 100% coverage of available records, curious spellings, assumptions, out of date) and sometimes one of the trees there contains a useful hint or two to be followed up. But FamilySearch mostly has just indexes and transcriptions, not original documents, and it is always essential to check the originals. Even then, be careful - witness the incorrect name of David Winchester's father on his first marriage certificate.

I repeat, with emphasis: never, ever trust anything you find online unless it's an image of an original documents, and even then be wary.

Do not, for instance, take as gospel anything I have said. Go and get the original documents and check for yourself.



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