1. Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io
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Re: Research help on Thomas Gray, Lord Provost of Aberdeen in 1645

Bob Elder
 

Does anyone know of a genealogy group in Liverpool. I have only found one of the family moved from Scotland to Newcastle on Tyne  & then over to Liverpool

 

Thank you 

 

Bob Elder
Re: Research help on Thomas Gray, Lord Provost of Aberdeen in 1645

kengray1000@...
 

Thanks Anne, currently reading everything I can find on Aberdeen in the 1600s.

I concur with your final paragraph, the curse of online research and misplaced hope.
Re: Research help on Thomas Gray, Lord Provost of Aberdeen in 1645

kengray1000@...
 

Hi Josephine

Thanks for that, it pretty much confirms all I have discovered so far.

Scotlands People records show a marriage of Thomas Gray and Isobell Farquer and you can also find all their children there. Working back from her oldest child birth date and her marriage in 1630, suggests she was born around 1610. The book, Memorials of the aldermen, provosts, and Lord provosts of Aberdeen confirms that Thomas's father was Patrick Gray and also that he was married to Isobell Farquar. The book also confirms all their children that I found on Scotlands People. 

The tree from my DNA match is the USA is confirmed back to the above Thomas Gray and this being the period of our common ancestor. My line also goes back to Thomas Gray at the same time, however, this one has a different wife. The marriages and baptisms in both lines are documented in St Nicholas, Aberdeen. 

My inquiries now are to try and find out if Thomas had two wives as Isobell was 35 years younger than Thomas and was perhaps the second wife. My line could then be a result of a first marriage.

Its a theory. I spend my time reading old historical accounts of Aberdeen at that time. I find all the names above but not yet the connections. I really need a time machine.

Regards

Ken

 
Re: Research help on Thomas Gray, Lord Provost of Aberdeen in 1645

Anne Burgess
 

Have you tried the Aberdeen Archives? https://www.aberdeencity.gov.uk/services/libraries-and-archives/aberdeen-city-and-aberdeenshire-archives

Whatever you do, do ***not*** trust any family trees you find online, Use them only as a pointer for possible further research, and be prepared to reject them if they do not match the documentary evidence. The further back you go, the fewer records have actually survived, and just because you can find only one record that seems to fit your ancestor does not mean it has to be the right person, especially when the surname is a common one.
Re: Research help on Thomas Gray, Lord Provost of Aberdeen in 1645

Josephine Conray
 

Hi Ken

 

There are quite a few family trees on Ancestry with a mixture of Patents names but most of them have the same dates as yours.

 

Example of Parents names

Robert Gray/Graye 1560-1618 and Katherine Myles 1565-1617

Nicoll Gray & Katherine Myles

Patrick Gray & Elspait Gordone

Robert Gryer ( de Gray)

Gray &  Mary Button

 

Most of the tree only have one child John Gray 159. But there is one other that has children as John, Jessie Roack b 31 Oct 1883 Bap. 1 Feb 1884, Thomas, James,  then at the very end Henery/Henry b16 Nov 1654.

 

 

 

 

Name

Thomas Gray

Mother Elspait Gordone

Father Patrik Gray

Baptism 15/11/1576 Saint Nicholas, Aberdeen, Aberdeen, Scotland

FHL Film Number:

991133

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Record information.

Name

Thomas Gray

Spouse

Isobell Farquheir

Marriage

05/07/1630 Saint Nicholas, Aberdeen, Scotland 

FHL Film Number:

991138

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Name

Thomas Gray

Spouse  Issobell Davidson

Marriage  09/06/1654 Largo, Fife, Scotland

FHL Film Number:

1040180

 

The lady above to what I can work out is also called Issobell Thomesour she was born About 1578 at Saint Nicholas, Aberdeen.

 

The above marriage has one child John Gray b 28 Nov 1596 in Dumfermline, Fife. Married 3 July 1621 to Alision Marlene.

 

As to two marriages for Thomas Gray I can only find the two above for Issibell Dividson/ Thomesoun and Isobell Farquheir.  I cannot find any marriage of lady where she is 35 years younger than Thomas.

 

 

The years as Thomas Gray was Provost of Aberdeen 1645-1646, 1648-1649, 1655-1656

 

 

I am not connected to this family just helping.

 

Cheers

Josephine

Qld. Aust.

 

 

 

 

From: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io [mailto:Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io] On Behalf Of kengray1000@...
Sent: Tuesday, 28 July 2020 6:43 PM
To: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io
Subject: [ScotGen] Research help on Thomas Gray, Lord Provost of Aberdeen in 1645

 

Hello

Thanks to a DNA match with someone else researching Gray in Aberdeen we both have moved a bit further back in time.

I am now researching a possible common ancestor Thomas Gray, born in Aberdeen 1576, d 1658.  He was a Lord Provost of Aberdeen around 1645 and the information in the records of Aberdeen Lord Provosts match the documents in Scotland’s People regarding his parents, wife and children at that time.

He married Isobell Farquheir in 1630 and they had a number of children, possibly eight.  Isobell was 35 years younger than Thomas which suggests there could have been an earlier wife and children.

I would really like to discover if he had an earlier wife and it would be great to hear from anyone else researching this line. It would complete a puzzle and confirm a theory.

Regards
Ken
Research help on Thomas Gray, Lord Provost of Aberdeen in 1645

kengray1000@...
 

Hello

Thanks to a DNA match with someone else researching Gray in Aberdeen we both have moved a bit further back in time.

I am now researching a possible common ancestor Thomas Gray, born in Aberdeen 1576, d 1658.  He was a Lord Provost of Aberdeen around 1645 and the information in the records of Aberdeen Lord Provosts match the documents in Scotland’s People regarding his parents, wife and children at that time.

He married Isobell Farquheir in 1630 and they had a number of children, possibly eight.  Isobell was 35 years younger than Thomas which suggests there could have been an earlier wife and children.

I would really like to discover if he had an earlier wife and it would be great to hear from anyone else researching this line. It would complete a puzzle and confirm a theory.

Regards
Ken
Re: Who held Knockdolian Castle before the GRAHAMS of Wallacetown?

Dee Horn
 

This gives you lots of info on the castle and it says the MacCubbins inproved the land.


Put it in my castles etc folder for reading later

Dee Horn



On Sunday, July 26, 2020, 06:29:52 PM MST, Josephine Conray <javc@...> wrote:


Hi Kelly.

 

What an interesting family to have come from, I bet you had fund researching them.

 

I have added two web sites the first will show that the DeMorvilles  family seem to be the first landholder.

 

And the second site is on the Graham Clan. You should try and email them they will give all the information.

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scottish_feudal_barony_of_Grougar

 

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clan_Graham

 

 

Hope this helps

Josephine

Qld Aust.

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io [mailto:Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kelly P Graham
Sent: Monday, 27 July 2020 9:11 AM
To: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io
Subject: [ScotGen] Who held Knockdolian Castle before the GRAHAMS of Wallacetown?

 

Hello, all!!

I am a descendent, I believe, of Walter GRAHAM "of Wallacetown", youngest-son of William GRAHAM "of Kincardine & Old Montrose" and Mariota STEWART, Countess of Angus, daughter of 
King Robert III of Scotland and Annabella DRUMMOND. Walter "of Wallacetown" is recorded as having married the heiress of Knockdolian Castle, in Ayrshire. My question is:

Who were the holders of Knockdolian before the GRAHAMS?

Thank you for any help given :)

Kelly Paul GRAHAM.
     

--
Kelly Paul Graham

Re: Who held Knockdolian Castle before the GRAHAMS of Wallacetown?

Josephine Conray
 

Hi Kelly.

 

What an interesting family to have come from, I bet you had fund researching them.

 

I have added two web sites the first will show that the DeMorvilles  family seem to be the first landholder.

 

And the second site is on the Graham Clan. You should try and email them they will give all the information.

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scottish_feudal_barony_of_Grougar

 

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clan_Graham

 

 

Hope this helps

Josephine

Qld Aust.

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io [mailto:Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kelly P Graham
Sent: Monday, 27 July 2020 9:11 AM
To: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io
Subject: [ScotGen] Who held Knockdolian Castle before the GRAHAMS of Wallacetown?

 

Hello, all!!

I am a descendent, I believe, of Walter GRAHAM "of Wallacetown", youngest-son of William GRAHAM "of Kincardine & Old Montrose" and Mariota STEWART, Countess of Angus, daughter of 
King Robert III of Scotland and Annabella DRUMMOND. Walter "of Wallacetown" is recorded as having married the heiress of Knockdolian Castle, in Ayrshire. My question is:

Who were the holders of Knockdolian before the GRAHAMS?

Thank you for any help given :)

Kelly Paul GRAHAM.
     

--
Kelly Paul Graham

Who held Knockdolian Castle before the GRAHAMS of Wallacetown?

Kelly P Graham
 

Hello, all!!

I am a descendent, I believe, of Walter GRAHAM "of Wallacetown", youngest-son of William GRAHAM "of Kincardine & Old Montrose" and Mariota STEWART, Countess of Angus, daughter of 
King Robert III of Scotland and Annabella DRUMMOND. Walter "of Wallacetown" is recorded as having married the heiress of Knockdolian Castle, in Ayrshire. My question is:

Who were the holders of Knockdolian before the GRAHAMS?

Thank you for any help given :)

Kelly Paul GRAHAM.
     

--
Kelly Paul Graham
Re: Elizabeth BLAIRE, wife of Andrew GRAHAM "of Wallacetown"

Jocelyn Gould
 

Sound advice Anne.  Appreciate the effort you put into assisting others.

Jocelyn

On 25/07/2020 6:50 pm, Anne Burgess via groups.io wrote:
Have you tried contacting the Clan Blair archivist?

'The Surnames of Scotland' says that Blair is of territorial origin from one or more of the places of the name.

The origin of the place name is from Gaelic 'blar' which has a lot of meanings including a piece of ground or a battlefield so there are plenty to choose from.

IIRC Balthayock and somewhere near Blairgowrie were also seats of Blair families in Perthshire.

BTW never trust anything you find online unless it's an image of an original document. In particular don't trust online trees - use them as a pointer and confirm every step from originals. You cannot always know whether an online tree has been carefully researched or is a blend of fantasy and wishful thinking. And just because An****y or any other commercial web site has hundreds of trees saying the same thing means nothing, because people find a tree online and attach it to their own without checking, and over time every error is repeated dozens or hundreds of times.
Re: Elizabeth BLAIRE, wife of Andrew GRAHAM "of Wallacetown"

Anne Burgess
 

Have you tried contacting the Clan Blair archivist?

'The Surnames of Scotland' says that Blair is of territorial origin from one or more of the places of the name.

The origin of the place name is from Gaelic 'blar' which has a lot of meanings including a piece of ground or a battlefield so there are plenty to choose from.

IIRC Balthayock and somewhere near Blairgowrie were also seats of Blair families in Perthshire.

BTW never trust anything you find online unless it's an image of an original document. In particular don't trust online trees - use them as a pointer and confirm every step from originals. You cannot always know whether an online tree has been carefully researched or is a blend of fantasy and wishful thinking. And just because An****y or any other commercial web site has hundreds of trees saying the same thing means nothing, because people find a tree online and attach it to their own without checking, and over time every error is repeated dozens or hundreds of times.
Re: Elizabeth BLAIRE, wife of Andrew GRAHAM "of Wallacetown"

Kelly P Graham
 

Thank you, Josephine :) This is the line I'm following! :) It took me a long time to find that line. I am not sure - because Andrew's date- and place-
of- birth were never mentioned - but, the GRAHAMS may have still been centered around Kincardine Castle in Perthshire at this time! I mention that because
I have read (via Wiki, for what it's worth) that a branch of the Blairs (or an independent family) was seated in Perthshire.
--
Kelly Paul Graham
Re: Elizabeth BLAIRE, wife of Andrew GRAHAM "of Wallacetown"

Josephine Conray
 

Hi Kelly

 

There are some 225 Family trees on Ancestry for this family.  I have had a look at a few but they do not show Elizabeth Blair parents.  I do not know how much information you have on the family, I do not want to be writing lots of info if you have got it already so let me know what you want and will look.

 

Elizabeth Blair born 1453 at Blair House Dalry, Ayrshire

Andrew Graham of Wallacetown, Scot b 1455 Ayrshire and died before 1521 at Knockdolian Castel Ayrshire

Their son Gilbert Graham b 1494 Knockdolin Castle and died 1532 Knockdolin Castle Ayrshire. Married Mariot Cathcart of Glendoeis in 1519

 

I will have a look at more of the family to see if anyone has Elizabeth Parents.

 

Cheers

Josephine

Qld Aust.

 

 

Transactions-383

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io [mailto:Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kelly P Graham
Sent: Thursday, 23 July 2020 2:05 PM
To: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io
Subject: [ScotGen] Elizabeth BLAIRE, wife of Andrew GRAHAM "of Wallacetown"

 

Hello, all :)

I am looking for the birth-family of Elizabeth BLAIR, wife of Andrew GRAHAM "of Wallacetown", and mother of Gilbert GRAHAM "of Knockdolian" (killed in 1547). To which family of BLAIR did Elizabeth belong?

Thank you for any help given.
--
Kelly Paul Graham

Elizabeth BLAIRE, wife of Andrew GRAHAM "of Wallacetown"

Kelly P Graham
 

Hello, all :)

I am looking for the birth-family of Elizabeth BLAIR, wife of Andrew GRAHAM "of Wallacetown", and mother of Gilbert GRAHAM "of Knockdolian" (killed in 1547). To which family of BLAIR did Elizabeth belong?

Thank you for any help given.
--
Kelly Paul Graham
Re: John Mackay Problem ..............

aberloursearch@...
 

Hi Anne,

Thank you for taking the time to look at the baptism record for John Mackay i see it the same as you now, is always good to have another set of eyes to look at things.

Regards

Ray


-----Original Message-----
From: Anne Burgess via groups.io <anne.genlists@...>
To: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Jul 15, 2020 2:59 pm
Subject: Re: [ScotGen] John Mackay Problem ..............

Hi Ray

Looks like Hiltown to me. Definitely not an M at the beginning of it.

I see a Hilton between Redcastle and Muir of Ord https://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NH5449 and https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15⪫=57.51272&lon=-4.42572&layers=5&b=1 which is in the parish of Urray. This would fit with the baptism record but not obviously with John saying he was born at Redcastle.

Though I see from the 1855 valuation roll that Colonel Baillie who was the proprietor of Redcastle was also the proprietor of Tarradale, which is in the parish of Urray immediately next to Redcastle which is in the parish of Killearnan. Hilton is part of the estate of Tarradale.

Anne
Re: 1881 census on Window 10

Allan MacBain
 

Hi Howard,
I managed to locate a methodology that allowed me to put the WinXP VHD directly on Win10.
Once I get the time, I'll add in the 1881 Census Data & v4.02 of the Viewer software.

Thank you for your assistance.

Allan

On Thu, 9 Jul 2020 at 15:00, Howard <hw_03-lst-mor@...> wrote:
Allan,

To access the CDs, I use Oracle VM VirtualBox (free to download) inside
which I installed Windows XP, using the original CD that came with my
old XP machine. The only thing to remember is to have an 1881 CD loaded
before powering up VirtualBox because it won't recognise an empty CD/DVD
drive.

If I recall, I first did this on a W7 machine, and later on I was able
to export VirtualBox from the W7 environment to a the W10 environment
without the rigmarole of reinstallation. I have other specialised
software working within VirtualBox which have not worked in W7 since
before the beginning of time, let alone W10.

There are probably nowadays a myriad other ways, although initially I
did try Windows Virtual PC which turned out to be a useless heap of junk.

Howard
Re: John Mackay Problem ..............

Anne Burgess
 

Hi Ray

Looks like Hiltown to me. Definitely not an M at the beginning of it.

I see a Hilton between Redcastle and Muir of Ord https://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NH5449 and https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15&;lat=57.51272&lon=-4.42572&layers=5&b=1 which is in the parish of Urray. This would fit with the baptism record but not obviously with John saying he was born at Redcastle.

Though I see from the 1855 valuation roll that Colonel Baillie who was the proprietor of Redcastle was also the proprietor of Tarradale, which is in the parish of Urray immediately next to Redcastle which is in the parish of Killearnan. Hilton is part of the estate of Tarradale.

Anne
Re: John Mackay Problem ..............

aberloursearch@...
 

Hello Anne,

Please find attached a copy ot the Birth and baptism record for John Mackay born 6th January 1779 son of Duncan Mackay and Margaret Fraser.
Regards Ray


-----Original Message-----
From: Anne Burgess via groups.io <anne.genlists@...>
To: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Jul 14, 2020 4:48 pm
Subject: Re: [ScotGen] John Mackay Problem ..............

Could it possibly be MILTO??? Could you e-mail me a copy of it?

BTW someone upthread said there is a tree on Anc****y that says he was born at Kincastle.

I've never heard of a Kincastle and there is no listing of a Kincastle on www.scotlandsplaces.gov.uk so I suspect another of Anc****y's many and legendary mistranscriptions. It's probably Redcastle.

Anne
Re: John Mackay Problem ..............

Josephine Conray
 

Hi John

 

There are no family trees for Alexander McKay/ MacKay and Margaret Simpson, did see their marriage record in 1806 and I did see Alexander record for his Baptisms which was on the 15 April, 1816 at Knockbain FHL: Film no 990655 you might be able to order that film.

It seems strange that Alexander & Margaret  did not have any children in that fist ten years then Alex in 1816 & William in 1821 but there is no other information for them.

 

There is two Family tree for William McKay/ MacKay & Margaret Cobban, but there is not any new information then you already have on the email.

 

A couple of bits below for the children in Red

 

The only other information Margaret Cobban was born 24 Aug 1817 New Spynie  her parents John Connan b1770 and Elizabeth Cooper  b1781 – Died 17 Oct 1827 they were married 29 May 1804 Spynie, Moray. FHL Film no 990802

 

Sorry I could not help very much

Cheers

Josephine

Qld Aust.

 

 

From: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io [mailto:Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io] On Behalf Of jwmmackay@...
Sent: Tuesday, 14 July 2020 1:44 AM
To: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ScotGen] John Mackay Problem ..............

 

Hi Josephine,

I’m curious: Would it be possible for you tell me if there is an Ancestry family tree for either of the following?

William McKay, born July 4, 1821 in Knockbain, Ross Shire. Would later go by Mackay. Died 1903.

Married to Margaret Cobban, born around 1817 in New Spynie, Moray. Died 1908.

Children:

John McKay, born Apr 7, 1849 in Drainie, Morayshire, Moray County.===  Baptism 28 April 1849

Margaret McKay, born 1852 Morayshire

Alexander McKay, born 1854 Morayshire ====the 1881 Census states Alex was born Standrew’s  Shouboyd, Morashire

Elizabeth McKay, born Dec 24, 1856, Morayshire  Elizabeth Cooper born at Alves, Moray

William McKay, born May 16, 1860 Morayshire Also born at Alves, Moray  Occupation in 1861 was Police Constable.


or for the parents of William the father? I have him born in 1821 to Alexander McKay and Margaret Simpson, in Muckernich / Knockbain. All I ever found on Alexander and Margaret was a very brief marriage record (17 April 1806). No info on age, birth, death, parents, etc. They did have another child, Alexander, born 15 April, 1816.

Thanks!

John Mackay

Re: Searching for John McLeod

Anne Burgess
 

Good luck ... and it's always worth a look at LIBINDX http://libindx.moray.gov.uk/mainmenu.asp for any deaths in Moray or much od Banffshire - the one who died in Alves in 1929 is the coachman, not the blacksmith.
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