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Re: understanding ages in 1841 census

Goldie & Lido Doratti
 

I disagree....ages were supposed to be rounded to the nearest 5.....BUT...it wasn't consistently done. IF you are looking at a census for 1841 in Scotland it is best to plus or minus 5 years. Then work from there. Sometimes that doesn't work either, but worth the try. IF you know where a person was born, that helps, but also you have to allow for WHO gave the info....for example....a wife may not be sure, or an older child may have given it. So do what you can with the 1841 and if this works then skip to the 1851.....then it should show the true age. Failing all of this, and IF you know where a person was born, go to Scotland's People and try that site.....costs, yes, but you will get the actual documentation from the Old Parish Record Book. It is true about the under 15's being shown as the true age. But remember the 1841 census was done in or about 7 June of the year...then IF you know the date of birth, use plus or minus 1 year. Someone born in May would have one answer while someone born in June might give the actual age, or give the age they would be next month.....follow me? Someone who was 38 should show as 40, while someone age 37 should show as 35, BUT in fact it is not consistent, again I say. Think "outside" the box ..Goldie

-----Original Message-----
From: Terence Brown
Sent: Monday, June 1, 2020 4:21 PM
To: Scots@scotland-genealogy.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ScotGen] understanding ages in 1841 census

No he wouldn’t be shown as 39 but as 35.
Ages up to 15 were shown as the exact age. Ages over 15 were rounded down to the nearest 5 years, hence 39 shown as 35.

Regards
Terry Brown


Re: understanding ages in 1841 census

Terence Brown
 

No he wouldn’t be shown as 39 but as 35.
Ages up to 15 were shown as the exact age. Ages over 15 were rounded down to the nearest 5 years, hence 39 shown as 35.

Regards
Terry Brown


Re: understanding ages in 1841 census

JANET MORGAN
 

Thank you Ken. He was actually listed as 35. Sorry for that so it should hold true here then. Trying to narrow his parents down. I think he was Ayrshire and was married there in Kilwinning but most children were born in Renfrew. 

Janet Morgan

On Jun 1, 2020, at 7:17 PM, Ken Harrison <kenharrison43@...> wrote:

If he was 39, he “should” have been shown as 35.  But application was very inconsistent.
If it shows 39, then it is highly probable that in the Spring of 1841 he claimed to be 39, and so born in the last 8 months of 1801 or the first 4 of 1802.

Ken iPad

On Jun 1, 2020, at 4:11 PM, JANET MORGAN via groups.io <Jmorgan441@...> wrote:



I believe that the ages for adults were rounded down in the 1841 census. Is this correct? I am searching for the parents of my Allan/Alan Bowie who shows up in Campbell St Johnstone, Renfrewshire as 39 years old. If he was born in the latter part of the year 1801, December,  would he still show up as 39?
This parentage has been a stumbling block for years.
Thank you for any suggestions.
Janet Bowie Morgan


Re: understanding ages in 1841 census

Ken Harrison
 

If he was 39, he “should” have been shown as 35.  But application was very inconsistent.
If it shows 39, then it is highly probable that in the Spring of 1841 he claimed to be 39, and so born in the last 8 months of 1801 or the first 4 of 1802.

Ken iPad

On Jun 1, 2020, at 4:11 PM, JANET MORGAN via groups.io <Jmorgan441@...> wrote:



I believe that the ages for adults were rounded down in the 1841 census. Is this correct? I am searching for the parents of my Allan/Alan Bowie who shows up in Campbell St Johnstone, Renfrewshire as 39 years old. If he was born in the latter part of the year 1801, December,  would he still show up as 39?
This parentage has been a stumbling block for years.
Thank you for any suggestions.
Janet Bowie Morgan


Re: "Finding Your Scottish Ancestors in Canada" at Scottish Indexes Conference Monday 8 June 2020 07:00 BST

 

Right, I've joined the Facebook group and will see when they schedule everything. I'm running a meeting for my Genealogy Society in the afternoon, so... we'll see how it all pans out. 

Thanks for the suggestion! I hope that the sessions will be available for watching later, too. -v


On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 3:25 PM John Kemplen <john.kemplen@...> wrote:

Hi Valorie

I see that the conference is scheduled to continue until 10pm British time, which is 2pm your time, so perhaps you could contact the organisers to see if the Canadian presentation could be towards the end of the conference.

John


On 01/06/2020 22:46, Valorie Zimmerman wrote:
From Twitter today: 

Are you tracing your Scottish ancestors in Canada? Christine Woodcock will present “Finding Your Scottish Ancestors in Canada” at the Scottish Indexes Conference on Monday 8 June 2020. Register for free on http://scottishindexes.com

While there, I saw that you can either access via Facebook, or from Zoom. 

Unfortunately for me, 7am in the UK is 11pm Sunday night.

Valorie



understanding ages in 1841 census

JANET MORGAN
 


I believe that the ages for adults were rounded down in the 1841 census. Is this correct? I am searching for the parents of my Allan/Alan Bowie who shows up in Campbell St Johnstone, Renfrewshire as 39 years old. If he was born in the latter part of the year 1801, December,  would he still show up as 39?
This parentage has been a stumbling block for years.
Thank you for any suggestions.
Janet Bowie Morgan


Re: "Finding Your Scottish Ancestors in Canada" at Scottish Indexes Conference Monday 8 June 2020 07:00 BST

John Kemplen
 

Hi Valorie

I see that the conference is scheduled to continue until 10pm British time, which is 2pm your time, so perhaps you could contact the organisers to see if the Canadian presentation could be towards the end of the conference.

John


On 01/06/2020 22:46, Valorie Zimmerman wrote:
From Twitter today: 

Are you tracing your Scottish ancestors in Canada? Christine Woodcock will present “Finding Your Scottish Ancestors in Canada” at the Scottish Indexes Conference on Monday 8 June 2020. Register for free on http://scottishindexes.com

While there, I saw that you can either access via Facebook, or from Zoom. 

Unfortunately for me, 7am in the UK is 11pm Sunday night.

Valorei

--
http://about.me/valoriez - pronouns: she/her




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"Finding Your Scottish Ancestors in Canada" at Scottish Indexes Conference Monday 8 June 2020 07:00 BST

 

From Twitter today: 

Are you tracing your Scottish ancestors in Canada? Christine Woodcock will present “Finding Your Scottish Ancestors in Canada” at the Scottish Indexes Conference on Monday 8 June 2020. Register for free on http://scottishindexes.com

While there, I saw that you can either access via Facebook, or from Zoom. 

Unfortunately for me, 7am in the UK is 11pm Sunday night.

Valorei

--
http://about.me/valoriez - pronouns: she/her



Public asked to solve Scottish archive picture mystery

 

I came across this story in a Geneanet blog: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-52563761


Having only been in Scotland for 10 days, I'm not much help!

Valorie

--
http://about.me/valoriez - pronouns: she/her



DGFHS Online Shop

Terence Brown
 

Being interested in Dumfries and Galloway genealogy you may be interested to know that the Dumfries and Galloway Family History Society has today launched an Online Shop where you can purchase E-Books of MIs, OPRs and other publications. They have decided to do this as they are unable to fulfil Books orders with their Research Centre being closed owing to Coronavirus. You can access their website at www.dgfhs.org.uk and select SHOP ONLINE from the top menu.


Re: HOGG BLACKBURN

Anne Burgess
 

No, not for a moment would I trust that 'research'.

We've all done it. I spent a while climbing a wrong branch before discovering from her death certificate that my great-great-grandmother wasn't the person whose baptism I had found, but a person with exactly the same name born in exactly the same parish in exactly the same year whose baptism record has not survived.


Re: HOGG BLACKBURN

Paul MacAuley
 

I agree.  Verify, verify, verify, which I learned the hard way.  I accepted as the father and mother of my grandfather the first couple that seemed to fit.  It's a good thing pencils have erasers.

IBefore I retired, on my job I had occasion to visit many people's houses.  During a conversation with one woman about genealogy she claimed to have traced her family back to Adam.  Would I trust her research?


Re: HOGG BLACKBURN

Anne Burgess
 

That's a great story and one anyone would love to have in their family history.

All I am saying is that it is quite obviously impossible for William Hogg and Barbara Hume's son James, born (according to the web site found by Josephine) 1706 in the USA, to have gone to Scotland, married Janet Blackburn, and fathered a child there in 1716 at the tender age of 10 years. So any tree that says the parents-in-law of Janet Blackburn were William Hogg and Barbara Hume must be unreliable or worse.


Re: HOGG BLACKBURN

Dee Horn
 

The story that my family passed down is that William meet Barbara's family on a ship coming to America and that her family died during the voyage.  When the ship landed in New York he took her to her Uncle's told him that he wanted to marry her when she came of age.  When she was 18 he came back to New York and married her.  other than that that is all i remember of the story.  I i can find where i filed it i have a lengthy family tree tracing them back to the Haigs.  Problem is the tree is not in tree form but listed as families with other families mixed in and so far i mave not been able to make heads or tail of it.  when i do find it i will put it on the group in sections .

Dee 

On Tuesday, May 12, 2020, 03:09:41 AM MST, Anne Burgess via groups.io <anne.genlists@...> wrote:


[Edited Message Follows]

Please don't place any reliance on online family trees, whether on Ancestry or anywhere else.

What happens is that someone finds only one candidate in the surviving records who roughly fits their ancestor, and they assume it is the right person, even though there is absolutely no supporting evidence. Oblivious to the fact that the surviving records are incomplete, and their genuine ancestor is one who is among the missing ones, they add the candidate to their tree and publish it. Then along come 10 more people, and they find the tree and think, "Oh, good! That's my family, and someone else has done the work, so I'll just add that to my tree, and publish it!" And along come 100 more people who do the same, and before you know it there are hundreds of trees out there all containing the same wrong information. And more people come along and see that there are hundreds of trees with the same information, and they think that all those people must be right because they all agree, and they add the wrong iformation to their trees and publish it.



-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-


Re: HOGG BLACKBURN

Goldie & Lido Doratti
 

Read and heed.....THIS Lady knows about that of which she speaks...undoubtedly!! She is NOT a 'Guesser" she is a Genealogist. Long time ago I was told that when someone ASSUMES something it makes as ASS out of U and ME. Think about it........... Goldie

-----Original Message-----
From: Anne Burgess via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2020 2:40 AM
To: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ScotGen] HOGG BLACKBURN

[Edited Message Follows]

Please don't place any reliance on online family trees, whether on Ancestry or anywhere else.

What happens is that someone finds only one candidate in the surviving records who roughly fits their ancestor, and they assume it is the right person, even though there is absolutely no supporting evidence. Oblivious to the fact that the surviving records are incomplete, and their genuine ancestor is one who is among the missing ones, they add the candidate to their tree and publish it. Then along come 10 more people, and they find the tree and think, "Oh, good! That's my family, and someone else has done the work, so I'll just add that to my tree, and publish it!" And along come 100 more people who do the same, and before you know it there are hundreds of trees out there all containing the same wrong information. And more people come along and see that there are hundreds of trees with the same information, and they think that all those people must be right because they all agree, and they add the wrong iformation to their trees and publish it.

Looking at that extract from the printed book, it gives Peter Hogg's date of birth as 1703. If that is correct, he cannot be the son of James Hog and Janet Blackburn because their son Peter was not born until 1719. How sure are you that the date in the book is correct? What was the date of the marriage of Peter Hogg and Elizabeth Taylor?

Looking at the information that Josephine found about William Hoge and Barbara Hume, it suggests that Barbara was born in 1667 and that William Hoge and Barbara Hume were marrid in Perth Amboy in 1688/1689 - six or seven years after he arrived in the USA.

Their son James, according to this web site, was born in 1706 in Pennsylvania and died in 1795 in Virginia. He married twice; his first wife was Agnes Crawford and his second wife was Nancy Griffith.

But no matter how accurate or inaccurate these facts may be, there does seem to be one certain fact: that is, that William Hoge and Barbara Hume had settled in the USA a good quarter of a century before James Hog and Janet Blackburn's eldest recorded child, Janet, was baptised in Scotland. And if their son James Hoge was born in the USA in 1706, he was not old enough to marry and father a child in Scotland in 1716.

Therefore it looks pretty certain to me that James Hog, husband of Janet Blackburn, cannot by any stretch of the imagination be the son of William Hoge and Barbara Hume.


Re: HOGG BLACKBURN

Anne Burgess
 
Edited

Please don't place any reliance on online family trees, whether on Ancestry or anywhere else.

What happens is that someone finds only one candidate in the surviving records who roughly fits their ancestor, and they assume it is the right person, even though there is absolutely no supporting evidence. Oblivious to the fact that the surviving records are incomplete, and their genuine ancestor is one who is among the missing ones, they add the candidate to their tree and publish it. Then along come 10 more people, and they find the tree and think, "Oh, good! That's my family, and someone else has done the work, so I'll just add that to my tree, and publish it!" And along come 100 more people who do the same, and before you know it there are hundreds of trees out there all containing the same wrong information. And more people come along and see that there are hundreds of trees with the same information, and they think that all those people must be right because they all agree, and they add the wrong iformation to their trees and publish it.

Looking at that extract from the printed book, it gives Peter Hogg's date of birth as 1703. If that is correct, he cannot be the son of James Hog and Janet Blackburn because their son Peter was not born until 1719. How sure are you that the date in the book is correct? What was the date of the marriage of Peter Hogg and Elizabeth Taylor?

Looking at the information that Josephine found about William Hoge and Barbara Hume, it suggests that Barbara was born in 1667 and that William Hoge and Barbara Hume were marrid in Perth Amboy in 1688/1689 - six or seven years after he arrived in the USA.

Their son James, according to this web site, was born in 1706 in Pennsylvania and died in 1795 in Virginia. He married twice; his first wife was Agnes Crawford and his second wife was Nancy Griffith.

But no matter how accurate or inaccurate these facts may be, there does seem to be one certain fact: that is, that William Hoge and Barbara Hume had settled in the USA a good quarter of a century before James Hog and Janet Blackburn's eldest recorded child, Janet, was baptised in Scotland. And if their son James Hoge was born in the USA in 1706, he was not old enough to marry and father a child in Scotland in 1716.

Therefore it looks pretty certain to me that James Hog, husband of Janet Blackburn, cannot by any stretch of the imagination be the son of William Hoge and Barbara Hume.


Re: HOGG BLACKBURN

Dee Horn
 

My Blackburn married James Hogg in Scotland

Dee

On Monday, May 11, 2020, 09:56:45 AM MST, Sue Dietz <mandsdietz@...> wrote:


Dee, do you have Elizabeth Blackburn who married William Wilson 1722-1801 and lived in what became West Virginia in 1863, prior was Virginia? her father was Archibald. William's father was David/Davis Wilson of Ireland but either this David or his father of same name was originally of Scotland in Fife? 
sue fulk dietz


Re: HOGG BLACKBURN

Sue Dietz
 

Dee, do you have Elizabeth Blackburn who married William Wilson 1722-1801 and lived in what became West Virginia in 1863, prior was Virginia? her father was Archibald. William's father was David/Davis Wilson of Ireland but either this David or his father of same name was originally of Scotland in Fife? 
sue fulk dietz


Re: HOGG BLACKBURN

Dee Horn
 

Thank you for the info.  Teh lady and I still disagree on his parents as she says he is not listed in her tree.  gave up and unsubbed her page.  not worth the time arguiing with her.  will check out ancestry for other trees with him on it.

Dee

On Monday, May 4, 2020, 11:42:09 PM MST, Josephine Conray <javc@...> wrote:


Hello Dee

 

I have search Ancestry and there are about 3,135 Family Trees on it site for James Hogg & Janet Blackburn

 

To start the spelling of the family name goes:--  Hogg, Hoge, Hogue Hoag and Hog.

 

This is a list of James Hogg family Parents Grandparents so on

1. James Hogg & Janet Blackburn 10 children

2. William Hogue & Barbara Lambert Hume 11 children

3. Sir James Hoge & Lady Marjorie Lambert 11 children

4. George Hogue & Elizabeth Cuthbert  11 Children

5 Sir John Baron of Bemersyde Hogue/Hoge & Marion Cuthbert

 

Going by a lot of trees that I have look at you can say the James parents are William & Barbara Hogue/Hogg

 

I am not quite sure what you are looking for let me know I will have a Look.

 

Cheers

Josephine

Qld Aust.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io [mailto:Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dee Horn via groups.io
Sent: Monday, 4 May 2020 6:32 PM
To: scots@scotland-genealogy.groups.io
Subject: [ScotGen] HOGG BLACKBURN

 

trying to find info on my 6th great grandfather 

 

James Hogg

1680 Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland

about 1760 Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland 

 

He married in early 1700's ?

 

Janet Blaickburn/Blackburn

22 Jul 1689 Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland

30 Apr 1730 Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland  

 

His son Peter and a couple of brothers moved to Virginia and married Elizabeth Taylor and fought the Indians with George Washington,  He was a Captain in Washington's forces

 

None of the info i find on this family matches.  I found one site that said James father was William Hogg who married Barbara Hume and another said he was Charles Hogg.  This is a long standing dead end for me.

 

Would appreciate any help.

 

Dee Horn

 

 




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Re: HOGG BLACKBURN

Josephine Conray
 

Hi Dee

 

I found this information on “If Legends are true” they entry was by Emily Dawson 20 Apr 2019 on a William & Barbara  Hoge and their descendants. After looking at this document I am not too sure if you James and the James in this link who died in the USA are the same person.

 

It you go down the page to where you see  ‘ Here is a Copy of a letter received by Mr. F.L. Hoge”  when you read it, it state that James is the father of Rev Moses Hoge, I look him up and it the incorrect mother.

 

You know more about your family you might be able to work it out.

 

 

www.palmspringsbum.org/genealogy/getperson.php?personID=I30&tree=Legends

 

Cheers

Josephine

Qld. Aust

 

 

www.palmspringsbum.org/genealogy/

 

From: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io [mailto:Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dee Horn via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, 6 May 2020 5:08 PM
To: scots@scotland-genealogy.groups.io; Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ScotGen] HOGG BLACKBURN

 

I do have a tree when i find where i put it that traces the family all the way back to the Haigs

 

Dee

 

On Tuesday, May 5, 2020, 10:14:21 PM MST, Dee Horn via groups.io <dx2_horn@...> wrote:

 

 

Thank you I had thought for years that his mother was Barbara Hume but the lady that has the group on Facebook continual denies it.  She says that James was not their son and he is not listed on her family tree.  This has been my brick wall since i started in 2002 and since beside my aunt i am the only surviving member of my family.  The closest relative i have found thru DNA is a 5th cousin removed.

 

Dee Horn

 

On Monday, May 4, 2020, 11:42:09 PM MST, Josephine Conray <javc@...> wrote:

 

 

Hello Dee

 

I have search Ancestry and there are about 3,135 Family Trees on it site for James Hogg & Janet Blackburn

 

To start the spelling of the family name goes:--  Hogg, Hoge, Hogue Hoag and Hog.

 

This is a list of James Hogg family Parents Grandparents so on

1. James Hogg & Janet Blackburn 10 children

2. William Hogue & Barbara Lambert Hume 11 children

3. Sir James Hoge & Lady Marjorie Lambert 11 children

4. George Hogue & Elizabeth Cuthbert  11 Children

5 Sir John Baron of Bemersyde Hogue/Hoge & Marion Cuthbert

 

Going by a lot of trees that I have look at you can say the James parents are William & Barbara Hogue/Hogg

 

I am not quite sure what you are looking for let me know I will have a Look.

 

Cheers

Josephine

Qld Aust.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io [mailto:Scots@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dee Horn via groups.io
Sent: Monday, 4 May 2020 6:32 PM
To: scots@scotland-genealogy.groups.io
Subject: [ScotGen] HOGG BLACKBURN

 

trying to find info on my 6th great grandfather 

 

James Hogg

1680 Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland

about 1760 Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland 

 

He married in early 1700's ?

 

Janet Blaickburn/Blackburn

22 Jul 1689 Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland

30 Apr 1730 Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland  

 

His son Peter and a couple of brothers moved to Virginia and married Elizabeth Taylor and fought the Indians with George Washington,  He was a Captain in Washington's forces

 

None of the info i find on this family matches.  I found one site that said James father was William Hogg who married Barbara Hume and another said he was Charles Hogg.  This is a long standing dead end for me.

 

Would appreciate any help.

 

Dee Horn

 

 

 


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