Re: John Murdoch + Islay emigrants
candy@...
I got quite excited when this popped on on my emails mentioning John Murdoch of Islay. Then realised it was not my Rev John Murdoch first pastor of the Round Church in Bowmore. He had 11 children and only know of 2 marriages, the one of which I descended (Thomas) and Charlotte who married who married Neil Currie. They had a John b 1771 and two other males Archibald 1758 and Patrick 1768. The last two children would have been born on Islay (John 1771 and Jean 1772) as he only arrived on Islay around 1769.
Wondering if maybe this John Murdoch you mention would some connection. I have heard of this John a few times, but as I have been unable to conclusively find any indication of marriages or deaths of Rev John's children so far it would be hard to tell. Will need to get back to this side of the family and see what I can find.
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Re Toni's email,: [Islay] John Murdoch + Islay emigrants
Marion Larmer
Your Email is most interesting.
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My McDougald and Campbell ancestors came from Nosbridge and Mulindry, Parish of Bowmore in 1841 and 1847.It is always good to read info on that area. Thanks -and all the best to you-Toni. Marion Larmer
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Re: John Murdoch + Islay emigrants
John Kemplen
Hi Toni Would it be possible for you to share with us images of the handwritten place and person names, which would allow us to make our own guesses about the letters making up the words? Some of us are quite used to the letter combinations that you tend to get in Gaelic. My initial guess about the lady's name would be Ceit Ruadh (Red-headed Kate). Regards John
On 14/02/2021 18:39,
tsinclair@... wrote:
Hello everyone, and Happy (?) Valentine's Day
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Re: John Murdoch + Islay emigrants
Sue Visser
Just grasping at straws here ...
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The Torra River (north of Glenegedale) - perhaps that's the first part. Ruadh - red haired? Perhaps some help from Gaelic speakers can solve a couple of the problems. Interesting project - good luck, Sue Visser
-----Original Message-----
From: tsinclair@nexicom.net Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2021 1:39 PM To: Islay@scotland-genealogy.groups.io Subject: [Islay] John Murdoch + Islay emigrants Hello everyone, and Happy (?) Valentine's Day I've been reading "For the People's Cause" by James Hunter, based the writings of John Murdoch, Highland and Irish Land Reformer. Much of his boyhood was spent on Islay, and eventually returned there as an Excise man. Murdoch wrote about Islay frequently, and Chapter 5, "An Islay Clearance 1859" seems to be completely Murdoch's own perspective. The book also covers his passion for desperate living conditions throughout the highlands, the unfair treatment of the crofters, and his involvement with "The Highlander" a newspaper echoing his beliefs. In1879/80 he came to North America where he met up with several Islay emigrants to see for himself how they were faring and to get their impressions of their homeland from their new perspective, which he later wrote about in his editorials. However, the book seems to cover only excerpts of this travel journal. In Glasgow (probably Mitchell Library) a few years ago, I got my hands on a handwritten copy of the journal of this trip, and was allowed to photocopy a few pages, and I photographed some more pages which were relevant to my own research. In it he refers on two occasions to a place on Islay - once to John Sinclair, son of Neil Sinclair of Torranhungari (sp?), and also "Here we had several of the Torrantungary (sp?) Sinclairs and the sons of Cest Ruadh (sp?) and her husband Donald Brown, originally from Teana shefoi_g (spelling actually could be anything). Does anyone in this group know about this Brown family? I know that the above Neil and family lived at Neriby farm before emigrating to Ontario in 1842/43. Their oldest daughter, Catherine married Donald Brown in May of 1829, and their oldest son, Dugald was born there in 1832. The Browns emigrated first to Cape Breton in 1833 and the rest of their children were born there. Later (1850s) they migrated to Fenelon township, Ontario to join the Sinclair family when old Neil died. I've looked everywhere for "Torranhungary" on old Islay maps and tenant lists, but can't find it anywhere. Could this be a Gaelic version of Neriby or another township in that vicinity? He was certainly an advocate for saving the Gaelic language! Finally, I'll try to read any other name I can find on these pages, and type up a list of them. If any of you recognise them, I'll be happy to give you any further details which Murdoch mentioned. Toni
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John Murdoch + Islay emigrants
tsinclair@...
Hello everyone, and Happy (?) Valentine's Day
I've been reading "For the People's Cause" by James Hunter, based the writings of John Murdoch, Highland and Irish Land Reformer. Much of his boyhood was spent on Islay, and eventually returned there as an Excise man. Murdoch wrote about Islay frequently, and Chapter 5, "An Islay Clearance 1859" seems to be completely Murdoch's own perspective. The book also covers his passion for desperate living conditions throughout the highlands, the unfair treatment of the crofters, and his involvement with "The Highlander" a newspaper echoing his beliefs. In1879/80 he came to North America where he met up with several Islay emigrants to see for himself how they were faring and to get their impressions of their homeland from their new perspective, which he later wrote about in his editorials. However, the book seems to cover only excerpts of this travel journal. In Glasgow (probably Mitchell Library) a few years ago, I got my hands on a handwritten copy of the journal of this trip, and was allowed to photocopy a few pages, and I photographed some more pages which were relevant to my own research. In it he refers on two occasions to a place on Islay - once to John Sinclair, son of Neil Sinclair of Torranhungari (sp?), and also "Here we had several of the Torrantungary (sp?) Sinclairs and the sons of Cest Ruadh (sp?) and her husband Donald Brown, originally from Teana shefoi_g (spelling actually could be anything). Does anyone in this group know about this Brown family? I know that the above Neil and family lived at Neriby farm before emigrating to Ontario in 1842/43. Their oldest daughter, Catherine married Donald Brown in May of 1829, and their oldest son, Dugald was born there in 1832. The Browns emigrated first to Cape Breton in 1833 and the rest of their children were born there. Later (1850s) they migrated to Fenelon township, Ontario to join the Sinclair family when old Neil died. I've looked everywhere for "Torranhungary" on old Islay maps and tenant lists, but can't find it anywhere. Could this be a Gaelic version of Neriby or another township in that vicinity? He was certainly an advocate for saving the Gaelic language! Finally, I'll try to read any other name I can find on these pages, and type up a list of them. If any of you recognise them, I'll be happy to give you any further details which Murdoch mentioned. Toni
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Re: Currie / McVurich - please help
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Re: Currie / McVurich - please help
http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~steve/islay/data.htm
Try this Chris.
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Re: Currie / McVurich - please help
Chris MacDougall
Hi Iain, Many thanks for sending this to me! I greatly appreciate it. I will be reviewing this in detail, and expanding to include my Jura ancestors that migrated to Islay in the 1840s. Thank you again! All the best, Chris
On Sat, Feb 13, 2021 at 4:34 AM Iain MacIntosh <port.wemyss@...> wrote:
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Re: Currie / McVurich - please help
Hi Chris Christ: I tried to get on to Ted Larson’s pages on Rootsweb, but encountered an error. I have attached an Excel spreadsheet of this data which I downloaded a number of years ago from Steve’s site.
Regards
Iain MacIntosh
From: Islay@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io <Islay@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris MacDougall
Hello everyone,
I am hunting down a McDougall/Currie link, and I am wondering if any of you might have these people in your respective trees, plus further information.
Euphemia (Effie) Currie married Hugh McDougal at Kilmeny in 1855, and they had a daughter named Anne in 1860. There might be other children, I am not sure.
The other items I am not sure of are Hugh's parents and Effie's parents. As everyone well knows, the number of McDougalls and Curries on Islay makes this extremely difficult to follow. My own Jura McDougalls went to Islay in the 1840s, also muddying the waters a bit.
Any information, or leads for me to research further, that you may have regarding Hugh, Euphemia (Effie) and their children would be greatly appreciated.
Many thanks and all the best,
Chris
On Mon, Feb 8, 2021 at 11:59 AM Janice McClelland <jan.mcclelland888@...> wrote:
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Re: Currie / McVurich - please help
Hi Chris You can find other children of this family in the births pages of the late Ted Larson’s pages which are linked through Steve Gilchrist’s webpages on Rootsweb. http://freepages.family.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~tlarson/bdm/
As their youngest was born in 1872, you will probably be able to search for High and Euphemia’s deaths on Scotlandspeople website. As they would be statutory death records (1855 onwards), they will give you the parents names.
Good luck
Iain MacIntosh
From: Islay@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io <Islay@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris MacDougall
Hello everyone,
I am hunting down a McDougall/Currie link, and I am wondering if any of you might have these people in your respective trees, plus further information.
Euphemia (Effie) Currie married Hugh McDougal at Kilmeny in 1855, and they had a daughter named Anne in 1860. There might be other children, I am not sure.
The other items I am not sure of are Hugh's parents and Effie's parents. As everyone well knows, the number of McDougalls and Curries on Islay makes this extremely difficult to follow. My own Jura McDougalls went to Islay in the 1840s, also muddying the waters a bit.
Any information, or leads for me to research further, that you may have regarding Hugh, Euphemia (Effie) and their children would be greatly appreciated.
Many thanks and all the best,
Chris
On Mon, Feb 8, 2021 at 11:59 AM Janice McClelland <jan.mcclelland888@...> wrote:
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Re: Currie / McVurich - please help
Chris MacDougall
Hello everyone, I am hunting down a McDougall/Currie link, and I am wondering if any of you might have these people in your respective trees, plus further information. Euphemia (Effie) Currie married Hugh McDougal at Kilmeny in 1855, and they had a daughter named Anne in 1860. There might be other children, I am not sure. The other items I am not sure of are Hugh's parents and Effie's parents. As everyone well knows, the number of McDougalls and Curries on Islay makes this extremely difficult to follow. My own Jura McDougalls went to Islay in the 1840s, also muddying the waters a bit. Any information, or leads for me to research further, that you may have regarding Hugh, Euphemia (Effie) and their children would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks and all the best, Chris
On Mon, Feb 8, 2021 at 11:59 AM Janice McClelland <jan.mcclelland888@...> wrote: Anne, that's great that you & Janet have confirmed links & solidified some connections.
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Re: Coultersay, Islay
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From: Cas Houston
Sent: February 12, 2021 1:18 AM To: Islay@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io Subject: Re: [Islay] Coultersay, Islay
Hi, > Coultersay - It is a lovely spot with an open view to Loch Indaal and > is named clearly with a sign at the entrance road on "Street View" on > Google maps . > > Regards > > Charles Houston
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Re: Coultersay
Thanks Ian, I appreciate your assistance. Glynn Currie Vancouver Island, Canada.
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: Ian McEachern
Sent: February 11, 2021 4:47 PM To: islay@scotland-genealogy.groups.io Subject: [Islay] Coultersay
Hello Glynn, I have two maps of Islay, both clearly show Coultersay. Must be a pretty place. Ian McEachern Western Australia
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Re: Coultersay, Islay
Cas Houston
Hi,
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Coultersay - It is a lovely spot with an open view to Loch Indaal and is named clearly with a sign at the entrance road on "Street View" on Google maps .
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Coultersay
Ian McEachern
Hello Glynn, I have two maps of Islay, both clearly show Coultersay. Must be a pretty place. Ian McEachern Western Australia
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Re: North Carolina + Scotland Symposium
Malcolm Campbell
Thanks for this Toni Looks interesting. May attend Bought Fleming's book Eldon Connections at an OGS conference years ago. My best, Malcolm CAMPBELL
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Re: North Carolina + Scotland Symposium
Thank you, Toni. I'll be there. I'm particularly looking forward to Dr. Bruce Durie's talk - "The Confusing DNA of the Scots" ! Diane R
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North Carolina + Scotland Symposium
tsinclair@...
Hi everyone,
I recently heard from Bill Caudill of the Scottish Heritage Center (St.Andrews University) in North Carolina that they will continue to hold their annual (30th) Scottish Heritage Symposium, but in a "virtual" format for the first time this year on March 20. We are invited to "Take the opportunity to spend the day with some of the top scholars in the USA, Scotland and Canada on topics relative to Scottish and Scottish-American history and genealogy." Among the list of these excellent scholars is Dr. Rae Fleming, author of "Eldon Connections", and local historian and specialist on the migrations between Islay, NC and Ontario in the19th century. He actually lives in Eldon Township! Other topics include Gaelic literature and lore in the American South; dna found in Scotland and the Scottish diaspora; Gaelic hymn and song traditions found in the Carolinas; and the connections between Native Americans of the Carolinas and their emigrant Highland Scot neighbours. You can learn more details about the speakers at: https://www.sa.edu/scottish-heritage/ and click on the Brochure Link. The schedule and registration information you will find under 2021 Schedule link. Or, email me, and I'll forward these details to you. The cost is only $20 US. My husband, Sandy and I have personally attended two of these symposiums in past years, and they were well worth the trip. Now we can enjoy this interesting conference in the comfort of our own homes! I am also a member of their NC Scottish Heritage Society, which puts out an excellent Journal 3 times a year, called The Argyll Colony Plus. They give Islay quite a lot of coverage in many diverse aspects of Islay life and history. In the most recent issue is a list of many Immigrant Ships from Scotland to North Carolina 1739-1820 by Dr. R.J. Cain of Raleigh, NC. Among them it mentions 2 ships of interest to us: - 1769, the Mally sailed from Islay for NC, "full of passengers to settle there." (from Scots Magazine,1769) - 1774, the Carolina Packet sailed from Campbeltown, with 62 passengers from Islay and Mull, (Newsome) The 1818 ship that brought the "Eldon" folks to NC wasn't listed. In 1820 there were 2 Sinclair brothers who left Kilchoman parish for NC with their young families, presumeably following their friends who left two years earlier. However, they did not migrate north to Ontario, and there are many descendants still living in the Carolinas and further afield. And Bill Caudill is one of them. It's a small world. Toni
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Re: Caullorsay, Islay
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From: Roger via groups.io
Sent: February 9, 2021 2:07 AM To: Islay@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io Subject: Re: [Islay] Caullorsay, Islay
Hi, here is my two pence worth – Corogortan in 1851 with its current name being Corra Ghoirtein in Kilarrow parish – Hope this helps – NR 3145/6960. Regards Roger
From: Dan Niven via groups.io Sent: Monday, February 08, 2021 4:03 PM Subject: Re: [Islay] Caullorsay, Islay
On a related note, in his memoirs (written in the 1850s), my GGG grandfather, Daniel (Mac)Niven indicated that when his father (Duncan MacNiven) married his mother (Flora Campbell) he quit working at sea and moved to his father's (Malcolm MacNiven) farm in a place called "Cargostan", Islay. My GGG grandfather said he was born there in 1766.
I have been unable to identify any location/homestead with this name on Islay. My GGG grandfather was in his 80s when he wrote this, and although he was a native Gaelic speaker, he had not set foot on Islay since he emigrated to the U.S. in 1791, so clearly time could have clouded his memory of the spelling of the place.
When I visited Islay with my family we enquired about this location and the best anyone could offer was that it was possibly Conisby, where some MacNiven's still lived at the time. This may be, but in his memoirs my GGG grandfather described how his mother apparently suffered from severe post partum depression, and shortly after he was born she nearly threw him off a cliff near the farmstead. There does not appear ot be a cliff near Conisby, so I suspect that is not the "Cargostan" that my GGG grandfather was referring to.
I'd appreciate any insights you may have about this. Thanks very much.
Daniel Niven
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Re: Caullorsay, Islay
You are correct. My original spelling was based on my reading of old style hand writing. Your spelling is the correct one. Glynn Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: J LOCHRIDGE via groups.io
Sent: February 9, 2021 2:29 AM To: Islay@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io Subject: Re: [Islay] Caullorsay, Islay
I have come into this discussion late but is what is shown as Caullorsay, otherwise known as Coultorsay (Cultorsa) Kilchoman? Johan
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