Date   

Re: Currie / McVurich - please help

Alan Cameron
 

If it helps, I have some details of my Currie family. They were from Cairnduncan or CairnDonnachie which is in the Gruinard area of Islay.

My grandmother was Anne Curie (1873-1954) She married John Fraser who was born and brought up in Cladadh, Portnahaven). Anne's parents were John Currie (1823-1877) and Mary Smith. John's parents were Malcolm Currie (1794-1855) and Elizabeth Ferguson (1799-1862). Malcolm's parents were Duncan Currie (1763 - ?) and Mary McCauley ( 1767 - ?). Duncan's parents were Neil McCurry(1732 -?) and Mary Ferguson.(1735-?)

I have a list of descendants from Malcolm and John which may be of interest.

Incidentally, I saw a recent debate about the name. It is supposed to be derived from Murchadh who was the Poet / genealogist to the Lords of the Isles. His sons would have been MacMurchadh ie (son of Murdoch) and the next generation would be macmhicmhurachidh ie the son of the son of Murdoch. Mhic is grammatically the genitive of mac and simple means of the son. In time this became  Mac 'ichmhurichidh sounded machk-eech-oorich-ee) where the mh is silent and from there the mac  is dropped leaving simply coor-ee and then Currie. So your Curries in Islay are descended from an ancient and  important bardic family, associated with the Lords of the Isles.

Alan Iain Cameron

Director of Community Engagement


Currie family

 

Jan - if you'd like some help with the Currie family, please contact me directly. You should be able to e-mail me directly. If not, do let me know here.


Re: Currie / McVurich - please help

Iain MacIntosh
 

Have you an original official source for this assumption . I have come across so many Ancestry trees which have just copied unsubstantiated information without going back to original records for verification.  My family in other trees have some whoppers! 🙄


Iain Macintosh 




Re: Currie / McVurich - please help

Susan Page
 

My husband has done his DNA (he is a Currie thru his grandmother) and I’ve put it up on GEDmatch (its free)where comparisons can be made.

On Jan 20, 2021, at 10:52 AM, Janice McClelland <jan.mcclelland888@...> wrote:

Hi Anne - yes, he has done Ancestry's DNA test. I am really struggling with the Curries - FAR too many of them with the same name for my liking, lol.  Thus far I have 8 Mary's in the tree & 7 Donald's, and I know that's just a drop in the bucket. The only Mary I have that is close to yours is a Mary b. 1796 whom I added just yesterday. Parents Donald & Catherine Mccannel.

Wayne's 3x ggm is also Mary 1787-1862. She married a James McDermid.

If you'd like to look for Wayne (this is an open invitation to anyone reading this) in your matches he is listed as 'K.W. McClelland'. 

I gave up on Curries yesterday after several hours of trying to sort Johns, Donalds and Malcolms down to a match who is a 6th cousin. I got bogged down when I realized that I can't follow his tree - we get to an ancestral Donald that he says was born in ontario which can't be right if both parents died in Scotland, which is what I have. It's Donald, Malcolm & Mary soup, with a few Johns thrown in for good measure!


Re: Currie / McVurich - please help

Janice McClelland
 

Hi Anne - yes, he has done Ancestry's DNA test. I am really struggling with the Curries - FAR too many of them with the same name for my liking, lol.  Thus far I have 8 Mary's in the tree & 7 Donald's, and I know that's just a drop in the bucket. The only Mary I have that is close to yours is a Mary b. 1796 whom I added just yesterday. Parents Donald & Catherine Mccannel.

Wayne's 3x ggm is also Mary 1787-1862. She married a James McDermid.

If you'd like to look for Wayne (this is an open invitation to anyone reading this) in your matches he is listed as 'K.W. McClelland'. 

I gave up on Curries yesterday after several hours of trying to sort Johns, Donalds and Malcolms down to a match who is a 6th cousin. I got bogged down when I realized that I can't follow his tree - we get to an ancestral Donald that he says was born in ontario which can't be right if both parents died in Scotland, which is what I have. It's Donald, Malcolm & Mary soup, with a few Johns thrown in for good measure!


Re: Currie / McVurich - please help

Anne Goeden
 

Hi Janice:

Has Wayne done his DNA test yet?  I'm always looking for my connection to Curries.  My ggg grandmother was Mary Currie (1794-1877) and her brother Donald Currie ( 1806-1877).  Still looking for their parents and siblings.  We believe their mother was a Sinclair. 

Maybe we can find a relative in common. 

Anne Goeden 


On Tue, Jan 19, 2021 at 4:08 PM Sharee Hughes <shareehughes1@...> wrote:
Janice, if you look up Clan currie online, you can find out lots of info about the clan's origins.

Sharee

On Tue, Jan 19, 2021 at 9:55 AM Janice McClelland <jan.mcclelland888@...> wrote:
Thank you, Sharee! The article Glynn shared mentions the anglicization of Scottish surnames in the 18th century. With Donald born abt 1760 that is a perfect fit. And thank you, Glynn, for the link to the article - a really interesting read. I've added Ivar to the tree and put this link on his page as well as Donald's. Excellent verification.

Thanks so much to both of you~
Jan


Re: Currie / McVurich - please help

Sharee Hughes
 

Janice, if you look up Clan currie online, you can find out lots of info about the clan's origins.

Sharee

On Tue, Jan 19, 2021 at 9:55 AM Janice McClelland <jan.mcclelland888@...> wrote:
Thank you, Sharee! The article Glynn shared mentions the anglicization of Scottish surnames in the 18th century. With Donald born abt 1760 that is a perfect fit. And thank you, Glynn, for the link to the article - a really interesting read. I've added Ivar to the tree and put this link on his page as well as Donald's. Excellent verification.

Thanks so much to both of you~
Jan


Re: Currie / McVurich - please help

Janice McClelland
 

Thank you, Sharee! The article Glynn shared mentions the anglicization of Scottish surnames in the 18th century. With Donald born abt 1760 that is a perfect fit. And thank you, Glynn, for the link to the article - a really interesting read. I've added Ivar to the tree and put this link on his page as well as Donald's. Excellent verification.

Thanks so much to both of you~
Jan


Re: Currie / McVurich - please help

Glynn Currie
 

Hi Janice,

The link below will take you to an Electric Scotland article which talks about the Currie family and the origin of the Currie name. You might find it interesting.

My only caveat is that it talks about the Clan Currie, which historically never existed. It is a modern attempt to create a clan through the use of society status. Other than that I think the article is good.

Hope it helps.

Glynn

 

Clan Currie (electricscotland.com)

 

 

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Janice McClelland
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2021 8:23 AM
To: Islay@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io
Subject: [Islay] Currie / McVurich - please help

 

Hi All - Wayne's 4x ggf is Donald Currie 1760-1840, Bowmore. Ancestry says that Donald's father was Ivar Currie McVurich, based on info from 17 family trees but few records. I have yet to add Ivar to the tree as I don't understand the Currie/McVurich name combo/change & haven't found an explanation or records that clearly state the situation that make me confident Ivar is my guy. Hoping Wayne's Currie cousins can shed some light on this for me.

Kind regards, 
Jan McClelland

 


Re: Valuation Rolls

Glynn Currie
 

Thanks Toni.



Sent from my Galaxy


-------- Original message --------
From: tsinclair@...
Date: 2021-01-18 07:58 (GMT-08:00)
To: Islay@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Islay] Valuation Rolls

Hello Glynn,
If it helps at all - in the 1828 Black Book (List of Tenants on the Estate of Islay), I see a listing for "Neil McDearmid's heirs" in Bowmore.  No specific address back then.
I typed up this list  back in 2000 (which is what John referred to in aprevious email), but I also still have a photocopy of the original.
Toni


Re: Currie / McVurich - please help

Sharee Hughes
 

I don't know that I can help with your ancestry, but I do know that McVurrich was the original name of the Currie clan and was anglicized to Currie, but don't know what year that happened.

Sharee

On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 9:23 AM Janice McClelland <jan.mcclelland888@...> wrote:
Hi All - Wayne's 4x ggf is Donald Currie 1760-1840, Bowmore. Ancestry says that Donald's father was Ivar Currie McVurich, based on info from 17 family trees but few records. I have yet to add Ivar to the tree as I don't understand the Currie/McVurich name combo/change & haven't found an explanation or records that clearly state the situation that make me confident Ivar is my guy. Hoping Wayne's Currie cousins can shed some light on this for me.

Kind regards, 
Jan McClelland


Currie / McVurich - please help

Janice McClelland
 

Hi All - Wayne's 4x ggf is Donald Currie 1760-1840, Bowmore. Ancestry says that Donald's father was Ivar Currie McVurich, based on info from 17 family trees but few records. I have yet to add Ivar to the tree as I don't understand the Currie/McVurich name combo/change & haven't found an explanation or records that clearly state the situation that make me confident Ivar is my guy. Hoping Wayne's Currie cousins can shed some light on this for me.

Kind regards, 
Jan McClelland


Re: Valuation Rolls

tsinclair@...
 

Hello Glynn,
If it helps at all - in the 1828 Black Book (List of Tenants on the Estate of Islay), I see a listing for "Neil McDearmid's heirs" in Bowmore.  No specific address back then.
I typed up this list  back in 2000 (which is what John referred to in aprevious email), but I also still have a photocopy of the original.
Toni


Valuation Rolls

Glynn Currie
 

Thanks to John Klemplen's help I was able to find the valuation rolls for my great grandfather, Archibald McDiarmid, in Bowmore, Islay. It affirms that he lived on Shore Street which is the street mentioned on my Grandmother's birth certificate. If anyone is willing, I would like a lesson on reading the roll. Some things I can guess, but guessing is not as good as learning from a knowledgeable person. If anyone is willing to take the time I would appreciate hearing what you have to say about this particular document.
Thanks,
Glynn Currie



Thanks to John Klemplen's help I was able to find the valuation rolls for my great grandfather, Archibald McDiarmid, in Bowmore, Islay. 


A Robert Burns Celebration - Jan 23 online free

M. Diane Rogers
 

There is a free virtual  "Robert Burns Celebration" coming up - Presented by ScotFestBC and SFU's Centre for Scottish Studies.


Re: Valuation Rolls

Glynn Currie
 

Hi John,

I am at home on the computer this evening. Earlier I was reading email on my phone. Now I am able to open your map and am quite excited. There is a great deal of detail there. At some point I would like to visit Islay and see these places in person, but for now things such as this map give the impression that I know the place.

Thank you.

Glynn

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: John Kemplen via groups.io
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2021 2:15 AM
To: Islay@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Islay] Valuation Rolls

 

Hi Glynn

I can't answer your question about valuation rolls.  All I can say is that I haven't come across anything like them for the towns and villages, though there are lists that hint at some sort of valuation for farm tenancies.  There is a book of tenancies that includes the towns and villages as well as the farms for 1828 called the Black Book of Islay which you can find with a simple web search, but that is very vague on locations, certainly not giving street numbers.

Even today, street numbering on Islay can be very haphazard, with evidence of two or even three attempts at numbering systems overlaid on each other.  The earliest system was based on feu numbers.  I think that is feu as in feudal, though I have seen one suggestion that feu is related to fee.  You could try this reference, but it left me more confused than enlightened: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feu_(land_tenure)

Feu numbers are still very much in evidence in street numbering in Port Charlotte, and I suspect that may also be the case in Port Ellen and Bowmore.  The system usually involved numbers going up one side of a street then back down the other side, then going round the corner into another street, up one side of it and back down the other side, then turning the corner of the first street and carrying on until the next street and so on.  This is particularly evident in Port Charlotte and to some extent in Port Ellen where numbers on Frederick Crescent dive off up Lennox Street then back down the other side before continuing along the next stretch of Frederick Crescent.

I suspect, though I don't know for sure, that the same thing may have happened in Bowmore, with feu numbers starting in the Square, then going out and back on Shore Street, then up one block on the east side of Main Street, then out and back on Jamieson Street, then up the next block of Main Street to the top, then back along the west side to Flora Street, out and back along that street then possibly carrying on along the west side of Main Street.  I am deducing that from very fragmentary indications, and I suspect that when a stretch of numbers fell out of use and a number was required for another property, a number may have been brought into use based on other numbers nearby with no regard for any specific logical numbering scheme.

Even today, street numbers on Shore Street are erratic and fragmentary.  In the Royal Mail online postcode finder, only six numbers are given for properties on Shore Sreet (10, 17, 20, 23, 24 and 26), and all other properties are referenced by name.  A few more appear on the most detailed map I can find (attached), (12, 18 and 25A), and in some cases it is possible to fill in the blanks, but some look pretty random, like 23 being opposite 24, 25A and 26.

I have it in mind to try to piece the feu numbering system together from documents in the Islay Estate Papers in the Mitchell Library, Glasgow, but that is not going to happen until I have completed other projects.

Good luck!

John

 

 

On 11/01/2021 03:51, Glynn Currie wrote:

There don't seem to be any Valuation Rolls published for Islay. Is this correct?
My grandmother, Flora McDiarmid, was born on Shore Street in Bowmore, Islay, Argyle, in 1883. Of course there are no house numbers given for that time period.
Her father, Archibald McDiarmid, is listed as living on Shore Street, Bowmore, in the period census. It seems likely this would refer to the same house.
I would like to identify the building if I can. That way I could use Google Earth to get a look at it. I wonder if anyone can suggest an approach to identifying this building.
Thanks,
Glynn

 

 

Virus-free. www.avast.com

 


Re: Valuation Rolls

Glynn Currie
 

I can certainly do that.
Glynn



Sent from my Galaxy


-------- Original message --------
From: "John Kemplen via groups.io" <john.kemplen@...>
Date: 2021-01-11 09:08 (GMT-08:00)
To: Islay@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Islay] Valuation Rolls

PS There is an Archibald McDermid living in a house in the right parish, but the place just says "House", not Bowmore or Shore Street.  You would probably have to buy some credits to see if the original record gave more clues.

On 11/01/2021 17:01, John Kemplen wrote:

Glynn

There ARE Valuation Rolls for Islay for the period you are looking for.  You will find them on the Scotland's People website.  You have to register to search them, but you only have to pay to obtain a scan of an original record.  To find the ones for Bowmore, select Argyll County the parish Killarow and Kilmeny.  You can search by surname (not forgetting variations in spelling) or by place, but place is a bit tricky because it includes the property type before the town name, so I don't think you can just group everything for Bowmore together, as place would include House Bowmore, House and Garden Bowmore, House and Croft Bowmore etc.  The records start in 1855 and are then given every ten years, so you may have most success looking at 1885.

John



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Re: Valuation Rolls

Glynn Currie
 

Thanks again John. I did try Scotlands People and nothing came up at all. I will certainly try again.
Glynn




Sent from my Galaxy


-------- Original message --------
From: "John Kemplen via groups.io" <john.kemplen@...>
Date: 2021-01-11 09:02 (GMT-08:00)
To: Islay@Scotland-Genealogy.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Islay] Valuation Rolls

Glynn

There ARE Valuation Rolls for Islay for the period you are looking for.  You will find them on the Scotland's People website.  You have to register to search them, but you only have to pay to obtain a scan of an original record.  To find the ones for Bowmore, select Argyll County the parish Killarow and Kilmeny.  You can search by surname (not forgetting variations in spelling) or by place, but place is a bit tricky because it includes the property type before the town name, so I don't think you can just group everything for Bowmore together, as place would include House Bowmore, House and Garden Bowmore, House and Croft Bowmore etc.  The records start in 1855 and are then given every ten years, so you may have most success looking at 1885.

John


On 11/01/2021 11:07, Glynn Currie wrote:
Thanks John,
While not answering my question quite the way I would have liked, you have certainly provided some excellent information. I truly appreciate that.
Glynn



Sent from my Galaxy


-------- Original message --------
From: "John Kemplen via groups.io" <john.kemplen@...>
Date: 2021-01-11 02:15 (GMT-08:00)
Subject: Re: [Islay] Valuation Rolls

Hi Glynn

I can't answer your question about valuation rolls.  All I can say is that I haven't come across anything like them for the towns and villages, though there are lists that hint at some sort of valuation for farm tenancies.  There is a book of tenancies that includes the towns and villages as well as the farms for 1828 called the Black Book of Islay which you can find with a simple web search, but that is very vague on locations, certainly not giving street numbers.

Even today, street numbering on Islay can be very haphazard, with evidence of two or even three attempts at numbering systems overlaid on each other.  The earliest system was based on feu numbers.  I think that is feu as in feudal, though I have seen one suggestion that feu is related to fee.  You could try this reference, but it left me more confused than enlightened: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feu_(land_tenure)

Feu numbers are still very much in evidence in street numbering in Port Charlotte, and I suspect that may also be the case in Port Ellen and Bowmore.  The system usually involved numbers going up one side of a street then back down the other side, then going round the corner into another street, up one side of it and back down the other side, then turning the corner of the first street and carrying on until the next street and so on.  This is particularly evident in Port Charlotte and to some extent in Port Ellen where numbers on Frederick Crescent dive off up Lennox Street then back down the other side before continuing along the next stretch of Frederick Crescent.

I suspect, though I don't know for sure, that the same thing may have happened in Bowmore, with feu numbers starting in the Square, then going out and back on Shore Street, then up one block on the east side of Main Street, then out and back on Jamieson Street, then up the next block of Main Street to the top, then back along the west side to Flora Street, out and back along that street then possibly carrying on along the west side of Main Street.  I am deducing that from very fragmentary indications, and I suspect that when a stretch of numbers fell out of use and a number was required for another property, a number may have been brought into use based on other numbers nearby with no regard for any specific logical numbering scheme.

Even today, street numbers on Shore Street are erratic and fragmentary.  In the Royal Mail online postcode finder, only six numbers are given for properties on Shore Sreet (10, 17, 20, 23, 24 and 26), and all other properties are referenced by name.  A few more appear on the most detailed map I can find (attached), (12, 18 and 25A), and in some cases it is possible to fill in the blanks, but some look pretty random, like 23 being opposite 24, 25A and 26.

I have it in mind to try to piece the feu numbering system together from documents in the Islay Estate Papers in the Mitchell Library, Glasgow, but that is not going to happen until I have completed other projects.

Good luck!

John



On 11/01/2021 03:51, Glynn Currie wrote:
There don't seem to be any Valuation Rolls published for Islay. Is this correct?
My grandmother, Flora McDiarmid, was born on Shore Street in Bowmore, Islay, Argyle, in 1883. Of course there are no house numbers given for that time period.
Her father, Archibald McDiarmid, is listed as living on Shore Street, Bowmore, in the period census. It seems likely this would refer to the same house.
I would like to identify the building if I can. That way I could use Google Earth to get a look at it. I wonder if anyone can suggest an approach to identifying this building.
Thanks,
Glynn



Virus-free. www.avast.com


Re: Valuation Rolls

John Kemplen
 

PS There is an Archibald McDermid living in a house in the right parish, but the place just says "House", not Bowmore or Shore Street.  You would probably have to buy some credits to see if the original record gave more clues.

On 11/01/2021 17:01, John Kemplen wrote:

Glynn

There ARE Valuation Rolls for Islay for the period you are looking for.  You will find them on the Scotland's People website.  You have to register to search them, but you only have to pay to obtain a scan of an original record.  To find the ones for Bowmore, select Argyll County the parish Killarow and Kilmeny.  You can search by surname (not forgetting variations in spelling) or by place, but place is a bit tricky because it includes the property type before the town name, so I don't think you can just group everything for Bowmore together, as place would include House Bowmore, House and Garden Bowmore, House and Croft Bowmore etc.  The records start in 1855 and are then given every ten years, so you may have most success looking at 1885.

John



Virus-free. www.avast.com


Re: Valuation Rolls

John Kemplen
 

Glynn

There ARE Valuation Rolls for Islay for the period you are looking for.  You will find them on the Scotland's People website.  You have to register to search them, but you only have to pay to obtain a scan of an original record.  To find the ones for Bowmore, select Argyll County the parish Killarow and Kilmeny.  You can search by surname (not forgetting variations in spelling) or by place, but place is a bit tricky because it includes the property type before the town name, so I don't think you can just group everything for Bowmore together, as place would include House Bowmore, House and Garden Bowmore, House and Croft Bowmore etc.  The records start in 1855 and are then given every ten years, so you may have most success looking at 1885.

John


On 11/01/2021 11:07, Glynn Currie wrote:
Thanks John,
While not answering my question quite the way I would have liked, you have certainly provided some excellent information. I truly appreciate that.
Glynn



Sent from my Galaxy


-------- Original message --------
From: "John Kemplen via groups.io" <john.kemplen@...>
Date: 2021-01-11 02:15 (GMT-08:00)
Subject: Re: [Islay] Valuation Rolls

Hi Glynn

I can't answer your question about valuation rolls.  All I can say is that I haven't come across anything like them for the towns and villages, though there are lists that hint at some sort of valuation for farm tenancies.  There is a book of tenancies that includes the towns and villages as well as the farms for 1828 called the Black Book of Islay which you can find with a simple web search, but that is very vague on locations, certainly not giving street numbers.

Even today, street numbering on Islay can be very haphazard, with evidence of two or even three attempts at numbering systems overlaid on each other.  The earliest system was based on feu numbers.  I think that is feu as in feudal, though I have seen one suggestion that feu is related to fee.  You could try this reference, but it left me more confused than enlightened: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feu_(land_tenure)

Feu numbers are still very much in evidence in street numbering in Port Charlotte, and I suspect that may also be the case in Port Ellen and Bowmore.  The system usually involved numbers going up one side of a street then back down the other side, then going round the corner into another street, up one side of it and back down the other side, then turning the corner of the first street and carrying on until the next street and so on.  This is particularly evident in Port Charlotte and to some extent in Port Ellen where numbers on Frederick Crescent dive off up Lennox Street then back down the other side before continuing along the next stretch of Frederick Crescent.

I suspect, though I don't know for sure, that the same thing may have happened in Bowmore, with feu numbers starting in the Square, then going out and back on Shore Street, then up one block on the east side of Main Street, then out and back on Jamieson Street, then up the next block of Main Street to the top, then back along the west side to Flora Street, out and back along that street then possibly carrying on along the west side of Main Street.  I am deducing that from very fragmentary indications, and I suspect that when a stretch of numbers fell out of use and a number was required for another property, a number may have been brought into use based on other numbers nearby with no regard for any specific logical numbering scheme.

Even today, street numbers on Shore Street are erratic and fragmentary.  In the Royal Mail online postcode finder, only six numbers are given for properties on Shore Sreet (10, 17, 20, 23, 24 and 26), and all other properties are referenced by name.  A few more appear on the most detailed map I can find (attached), (12, 18 and 25A), and in some cases it is possible to fill in the blanks, but some look pretty random, like 23 being opposite 24, 25A and 26.

I have it in mind to try to piece the feu numbering system together from documents in the Islay Estate Papers in the Mitchell Library, Glasgow, but that is not going to happen until I have completed other projects.

Good luck!

John



On 11/01/2021 03:51, Glynn Currie wrote:
There don't seem to be any Valuation Rolls published for Islay. Is this correct?
My grandmother, Flora McDiarmid, was born on Shore Street in Bowmore, Islay, Argyle, in 1883. Of course there are no house numbers given for that time period.
Her father, Archibald McDiarmid, is listed as living on Shore Street, Bowmore, in the period census. It seems likely this would refer to the same house.
I would like to identify the building if I can. That way I could use Google Earth to get a look at it. I wonder if anyone can suggest an approach to identifying this building.
Thanks,
Glynn



Virus-free. www.avast.com

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